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Comment by Alex3917 | Hacker News Reader

> They have a relatively small team when compared to Waymo, at least at the research/state-of-the-art level.

Sure, but in every independent test, Tesla's smart driving capabilities get completely trounced by Subaru EyeSight. Does Subaru also have vastly more PhD researchers than Tesla?

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Subaru EyeSight works very well in my experience, but it's much less ambitious. It basically just does lane keep assist, automatic braking, and dynamic cruise control. It can't be used at all in heavy precipitation and will automatically deactivate. The cruise control also has an annoying tendency to unnecessarily slow down on the freeway when you're in the slow lane and the vehicle in front takes an exit ramp.

I'm sorry but there's no way that Subaru EyeSight can "trounce" FSD. Maybe it is slightly better in some scenarios than legacy Autopilot which came out many years ago and hasn't been updated since. Tesla FSD is vastly more capable and can handle city driving with traffic controls whereas EyeSight merely just follows a lane.

> I'm sorry but there's no way that Subaru EyeSight can "trounce" FSD.

I mean that's what literally all of the data shows, e.g.:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu...

AEB has nothing to do with self driving or Autopilot.

It's literally the most foundational part of self driving.

Not really.

1. the AEB may run on a different codepath than FSD

2. AEB needs to decide when it is appropriate to override the driver, e.g. if the driver is behaving as though they are paying attention, e.g. by repeatedly stepping on the accelerator, it is undesirable to override the driver's deliberate actions even if it appears that the driver is about to run into something. On the other hand, when the car is driving autonomously, it has full control to avoid running into anything at all.

Also, instead of trusting unscientific tabloid news with inconsistent methodologies, why not use the standard assisted driving scores from official government tests, such as the Euro NCAP? Teslas score by far the highest. https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/assisted-driving...

You have made a solid argument for why we should believe the Euro NCAP scores so I will accept their assessment that Tesla is by far the worst.

Your link shows Tesla scores 36/100 in assistance competence, the lowest score by far. The second lowest is 52/100 and the average over all models (excluding Tesla) being ~67/100.

Oh weird haha idk why that link doesn't show the later scores but the Model Y and Model S both score 98/100 in Safety Assist:

* https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618

* https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+s/47760

which is by far the highest out of all models tested.

Your original link was to the “Assisted Driving Gradings” which evaluates ADAS systems such as Tesla Autopilot.

What you just linked is the AEB (and other collision avoidance/warning) rating and “AEB has nothing to do with self driving or Autopilot” as you said, so is totally irrelevant.

So, I stand by your position that we should trust Euro NCAP which means concluding Tesla Autopilot is by far the worst system.

In that "worst system" result it actually scored full marks on Adaptive Cruise Control Performance and got dinged points on subjective points such as "Driving Collaboration". The conclusion states that it excels at driving but the design may cause over-reliance. Since the 2020 test, Tesla has added a lot of new features such as driver monitoring via in-cabin camera which is extremely good at detecting whether I am focused on the road or looking at my phone.

For what it's worth, I have lots of experience with both Autopilot (both legacy and FSD) and various cruise control implementations. Tesla is honestly just vastly better.

So, we should “use the standard assisted driving scores from official government tests, such as the Euro NCAP” when you thought “Teslas score by far the highest”, but now you say the test sucks and has lots of methodology problems.

Yes I am very bad at arguing. But it doesn't change the facts which is that Tesla FSD is vastly better at driving than anything else out there.

It looks like of the features both systems have, Subaru EyeSight performs better... But Tesla FSD has vastly more abilities (some of which it performs well at, some middling, and some poor).

I'm not following the news on this, but what metrics do these independent tests use and what aspects do they cover? Are they driver assistance features?

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