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Comment by n2d4 | Hacker News Reader

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=265026...

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I’m sure that’s valid but I’ve worked for mobile app companies and can guarantee features like this are added just to get the entitlement.

Ah now I see - to get all the entitlements they create a super-app that happens to use those things.

Then they can spy on us for our main use case

Seems like Apple should give users the ability to download an app while rejecting an entitlement.

You can. iOS apps have to request individual permissions - I'm not sure about the specific level of granularity here, but you can deny location access while still letting the rest of the app run, and the app has to be able to deal with it.

As I understand it, this SSID feature does not require location services permissions.

It's not a new idea but I would love to see Apple implement a way to serve eg. a fake, empty contact list for an app that refuses to enable a feature unless you allow contact list permissions.

No, you can reject permissions, but not entitlements.

Entitlements are granted (statically, per developer certificate or maybe app ID, not sure) by Apple, permissions are (optionally) granted by users at runtime.

The only way to not have an app making use of an API gated by (only) an entitlement is to never install it.

Of course there could be permissions that are gated behind entitlements, but in this case it seems to be only an entitlement.

And even then, an app can block usage until you allow a permission; ie Snapchat doesn’t need the camera permission to allow you to chat but will block usage of the app until you enable it.

Snapchat has allowed you to chat without camera permission for years on Android. It's still required on iOS?

I at least partially blame Apple for this too.

I personally use several different terminal/Unix emulator/SSH client apps on iOS that request the "background location" permission solely because there is no actual "background execution" API.

That's a design decision. Apple doesn't trust developers in general not to abuse this background API. They expect lots of aid requesting it, unknowledgeable users granting it without thinking much, and iPhones getting a crappy reputation for battery performance as a result.

I dislike this decision (taking a choice away from the user) but from a business point of view it makes sense.

The complexities and capabilities in the Chinese(well, most asia) mobile market are remarkable.

I always find it funny when people boast about how great certain things are in the US without ever have traveled to HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing etc...

Most people dont realize just how entangled mobile life is in Asia, way more than in the US.

Centralized superapps seem incredibly dangerous to privacy, given that the limited mobile privacy models are designed around per-app permissions.

   1. Create app that does 1 thing
   2. Add more features to app
   3. Abuse superset of permissions
   4. Gov leans on app owner
   5. Gov abuses superset of permissions

No, I more than 100% agree, I am just staing that most people just dont realize just how deeply entangled the mobile is to Asian life. I wasn't praising it, I am horrified, but also in awe by it.

I'm pretty sure most people are very aware that most of east Asia never saw massive PC adoption and so their internet developed in a very mobile-centric way. This hasn't been surprising for a long time?

I'm not sure I agree.

I mean, back when the west had WAP there were articles saying NTT DoCoMo had much more advanced phone technology, sure.

But in terms of making it into the cultural consciousness - you don't see ubiquitous asia-specific mobile super-apps in cultural exports like 'Squid Game' or 'Spy X Family' (admittedly a lot of cultural exports aren't set in the present day)

I think if you're in China the centralized superapp is the least of your worries, privacy-wise. I agree that this is probably part of why these things will never really take off in the US though (no matter what Elon wants to wish for).

It is not the least of your worries, it is the abusive system working as intended. It is policy of the Chinese state to ingratiate itself into every aspect of its citizens' lives to exert control.

The fact the State is wholly evil in other ways does not lessen the worry; it multiplies it.

I think I'm missing some context: ex. there's O(many) apps that offer hotspot connections in the US as well. And my understanding is there's a privacy concern, which I think would be exacerbated by a super-app like WeChat adding this.

What's the great certain things of all that?

Is that inherently greater than not being connected or using super apps? Also, I didn't know Tokyo or japan in general were also into the "big app" concept. Japan in general didn't seem that "connected" relatively speaking back in 2017-18 but maybe stuff has changed in the past couple of years.

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