Comment by SoftTalker | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SoftTalker | Hacker News Reader

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One of the advantages of a classic BASIC for a beginner was its very small feature set. It was easy even for a kid to get it all in his or her head. Python not so much, especially the idiomatic stuff. BASIC is very clear:

    10 PRINT "HELLO"
    20 GOTO 10

If you understand that the computer will execute lines in numerical order, it's very easy to understand that. The equivalent in Python of just that simple thing would not be so clear.

It's great as an introductory language IMO. I disagree with Dijkstra that it will do any permanent damage -- if anything it will help the programmer appreciate the advantages of structured or object-oriented code when they are ready for it.

Right? I was just about to say that Windows ships with power shell these days, but then immediately realized how poorly that maps.

It used to ship with qbasic and a nice editor held over from dos. That was pretty good, though it was essentially hidden. It was there, but there was no icon for it and no docs or directions said to use it, let alone boot right to it as your primary interface.

Basically the driving force behind the production of Windows is the parts of MS that make money from it, not the developers who would write stuff for other developers if they could.

They want users that consume, not produce, and they absolutely do not want users who tinker and poke and modify.

They offer development systems only because they still have to, and they make even those into managed inscrutable products you merely use like powerpoint as much as possible.

> I disagree with Dijkstra that it will do any permanent damage

Dijkstra's quote about people who learned programming with BASIC being beyond repair is obviously hyperbole, but given the number of programmers he taught, I'd assume he was seeing some significant difference that was important enough to prompt his statement.

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