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Comment by ghaff | Hacker News Reader

IANAL, but I don't see how. If you're just an ordinary person, you're trading based on an event you witnessed in the course of going about your life. No different I would think than if you witnessed a plane crash. You might be investigated though if the amounts were large enough.

It gets much more complicated I would think if you were an air traffic controller or otherwise learned about it in a professional capacity.

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I think it's mostly a joke, the original post is from Reddit r/WallStreetBets.

But regarding Air Traffic controllers, it appears they are barred from owning airline stock https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/5/6001.104 (b)

That sounds like it's not really about insider trading but rather about quality of service and avoiding perverse incentives? So different entities don't get different treatment by ATC.

In particular note that the requirement is about lacking financial interests at all, not merely about avoiding trading.

I more hope they're barred from shorting airline stock. :)

They're barred from trading anything the SEC regulates (including options and shorted stock) with regards to airline, airplane manufacturer or airplane part manufacturer stocks. There is an exception allowing them to indirectly own them (like through mutual/index funds).

“But I did even better than owning zero airline stock. I own a negative amount!”

I would love to see congressional members and their families banned from the same.

It’s a big ask though. Where do you draw the line?

So either that, or I can get Pelosi ETF.

Has someone done that? Created a virtual etf of pelosi’s stocks?

Yes https://www.thestreet.com/etffocus/blog/want-to-trade-stocks...

But there is a very high expense ratio.

>It gets much more complicated I would think if you were an air traffic controller or otherwise learned about it in a professional capacity.

IANAL, but I am curious if ATC radio communications are considered public. My understanding is that it is legal to listen to ATC radio; if that's the case, is the plane crashing "public information" right after you relay the info over the radio?

As a random individual, almost certainly. I can do lots of (legal) things to ferret out information that is theoretically public but which isn't actually widely known.

As an insider it's more complicated as I understand it. A company I worked for had a no trade window around earnings reports. The idea is that not only couldn't you trade on advance information but you also couldn't trade before investors had time to price the results into the stock. In other word, you couldn't trade based on the results you knew were coming a microsecond after the results hit the wire. (The HFTs would probably beat you anyway but I digress.)

IANAL but I imagine corporate policies are stricter than the law here. I have a hard time imagining people getting prosecuted for "insider trading" based on earnings reports half an hour after they become public, but trading windows still generally prohibit that.

You're right. Caesar's wife beyond reproach and all that applies.

Especially these days with computer algorithms, the idea that it might take a couple of days to price in an earnings report is pretty silly probably. (And if an employee knows a lot of dirty laundry behind the public numbers, an extra day or two probably doesn't make much of a difference anyway.)

There was a legal case where the speed of light was used to identify insider trading. Information was publicly disclosed at (fake numbers) 12:00:00:001, yet trades benefiting from the information came at 12:00:00:002, which was faster than possible for the information to have been learned and acted upon by the involved parties.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/3/4798542/whats-faster-than...

> I am curious if ATC radio communications are considered public

It varies by justification. In the UK it is illegal to monitor communications not intended for you ( Wireless Communications Act 1949 ).

If you're an insider, my understanding is that it's not advisable to trade on material non-public information has become public immediately upon release. You need to wait for it to become widely dissemeniated. I've heard guidance of something like 2 business days after release, although that seems extra cautious.

Like if you were mechanic for the airline and got message that we will be landing with missing door. And then traded stock of airline on that information.

Being in the crew of the plane might get more messy at least when done with airline. Boeing less so.

This is the part which I find really sticky. What about all of the non-Boeing employees who interface with the equipment for their job?

The pilot, flight attendants, air traffic control, EMTs, etc. They have no direction association with Boeing, yet you could make an argument it was part of their responsibilities.

On the other hand, if your employer gives you X-brand wrenches, which frequently fall apart in your hands during routine operation, that seems like actionable information on which you would be justified to act.

Like all laws it's about enforcement. They can say whatever they want we know "insider trading" is a natural human response to information. Unless they can prove it was insider trading it isn't.

>> It gets much more complicated I would think if you were an air traffic controller or otherwise learned about it in a professional capacity.

I think even a Boeing employee would not be guilty. The event happened in public and it should make no difference since the non employee next to them would not be trading on insider info either. The information did not come from inside the company.

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