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Comment by spatten | Hacker News Reader

Made me wonder how you could prepare for something like this. If you had warning, and a metal box, would throwing all of your electronics in there be good enough to save them?

I'm thinking computer, phone, stuff like that.

Either way, I'm guessing the internet would be down for quite a while. Not to mention what this would do to our electrical infrastructure.

Hmm. I wonder if the fields would strong enough to kill the computers in cars.

This might make for a good near-future apocalyptic scenario. It doesn't sound too scary, but then you start thinking of the possibilities.

Think I'll go make myself a tinfoil hat :D.

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> Think I'll go make myself a tinfoil hat :D.

Aluminum can attract radio waves. Among other things. I wouldn't recommend it.

(http://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csai...)

>If you had warning, and a metal box, would throwing all of your electronics in there be good enough to save them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

A Faraday cage will not work, the frequency is too low. You'd need some Mu-metal.

You don't have to do that.

It's long powerlines that will be strongly affected from induced current. Small wires like those in devices will not be damaged.

And in any case a metal box will not help - the frequency is very low, and a faraday cage will not work (the magnetic field will go right through it).

If you do want to shield it you'd need some Mu-metal.

And, BTW you will have warning. Usually 1 or 2 days, sometimes as little as 12 hours, but you will have warning.

would that mean that wireless communication (radio, mobile, wifi) would be less affected?

No, during a storm they would be unusable due to noise.

And all wireless stuff at the end relies on wired for the backhaul.

I would guess it would be more affected since most long cables today are optical, while the storm would create noise for all wireless communications.

Electronics on Earth will probably be OK as long as they are not plugged in (and preferably powered off). The atmosphere makes a pretty good barrier to the charged particles that will destroy satellite electronics.

The main problem to worry about is in the power grid as the rapidly changing magnetic field induces strong currents in transmission lines (or any other kilometres long piece of conductor such as copper telephone lines).

A major solar storm event such as that would likely destroy satellite communications, GPS, et cetera, and severely damage power grids and potentially telecommunications infrastructure. Your laptop would be OK. Of course, you might not have power or internet connection for several days or weeks.

More like months, according to the IEEE: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/a-perfect-s...

massive solar eruptions capable of destroying humanity are covered in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstorm_(novel)

good book. i liked how the emergency services, military and police were using ancient pre electronic ground vehicles as they were the only ones that could survive or operate in such conditions.

Good question. I believe the ECUs and other electronics inside cars won't be affected - cars are made of metal, acting as a cage for the internals themselves, while the ECUs have their own EM protective cage.

Reading the article, it seems to me that only the satellites in orbit (and the ISS, unfortunately) will be severely damaged, while on the surface, we'll have to shut down our electronics and power stations (not an easy thing to do) to prevent damage...

Hopefully, if we are to have such a storm, it will come within the next two decades and be relatively mild, so we can learn how to protect ourselves from them in the future (and see just what kind of damage it can do)...

Yes, but you need fuel to run cars. And much of fuel extraction and refinements happens through machines that depend on electronic control systems.

Nobody builds fuel extraction plants preparing for massive solar flares.

While electronics in your car might be safe. You might not have fuel to use it.

I wouldn't worry about the extraction platforms. Refineries, maybe, but they're all equipped with on-site backups and the technology is pretty much mechanical, except for some electronic components that are non-essential.

Diesel engines and most electronics on ships will also be unaffected, since the ships are grounded by water and those engines are pretty much mechanical monsters - the supply of fuel will most likely go uninterrupted (heck, I'd worry more about governments and criminals using the opportunity to start something)...

There is nothing that exists in Isolation today. Everything thing depends on each other. That's the most beautiful and the scariest part.

When these sort of scenarios are discussed, we take into account only the first impacted entity. We don't analyze the things that get impacted because of the first entity and things that depend on each other. There are going to chained failures of systems. Each depending on other to recover. While none can at the moment.

When you see the whole equation in the entirety you will realize a single massive failure in one entity can send you back centuries.

Refineries, maybe, but they're all equipped with on-site backups and the technology is pretty much mechanical, except for some electronic components that are non-essential.

Most of a modern refinery is controlled by PLCs and computers.

Things will be far worse. If satellites get bricked a lot of things as we know it will come to a grinding halt.And as you said the other electronic and electrical equipment or earth will be dead.

I guess we will be without most modern technology for a quite a while, and starting from scratch will neither be easy nor cheap.

This is why we need to move out to space as quickly as we can. We have to do it while we can. One incident like this can take us centuries back.

Centuries? This stuff didn't even exist a century ago.

You are majorly exaggerating. Satellites might die, but they may not. They have shielding, and if they shut them down they could survive.

Most modern technology? It's just electronics, and only some of it at that. Most will survive just fine.

The power grid will take a hit, but if they shut it down in advance, that will protect both it, and anything connected to it.

There will be plenty of warning in advance and time to do it.

This will hurt, but it will be very very temporary.

It all depends on what kind of scenario you consider. We are talking of a worse case scenario.

Something like a really big solar flare. Anything less than that isn't even worth the discussion, because that is not harmful, anyway.

Is there a good resource for what would actually happen to the power grid? I was under the impression that the large near-DC currents induced by the changing magnetic field would destroy the wires, burn through insulators, etc., regardless of whether everything is shut down.

Here's a good article at the IEEE. They say an 1859-level flare could wipe out the grid. The big transformers would be destroyed, we don't have spares, and they're built painstakingly by hand, by skilled artisans who spend years learning how. http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/a-perfect-s...

There's a new device that could be installed to protect those transformers, but it's still in testing.

With enough warning, disconnecting the transformers would protect them, but the operators have to have the guts to purposely cause massive blackouts. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/08/11080...

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