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Comment by explaininjs | Hacker News Reader

The fact that they already sell the most popular electric vehicle in the US and Japan, and have done so since they launched the very beginning of electric vehicles, over 25 years ago? (Pruis)

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Ignoring that Prius is a hybrid and not an EV:

Toyota sold 30k in 2023, the lowest number ever.

Tesla sold 400k of Model Y and 210k of Model 3 and 31k of Model X in 2024.

So Model Y outsold Prius by 13x in US in 2023.

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https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/toyota/prius-family

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/29/tesla-model-ys-huge-gro...

Look at the insanely huge sales of the RAV4 hybrid. Americans don't buy small cars, we buy SUV/CUVs and Toyota is the king.

Didn't the Model Y outsell the RAV4 in 2023? I guess there are estimates that go both ways on that, but nobody really disputes that the RAV4 and Model Y are neck-and-neck. Would be nice if Tesla released actual numbers.

Doesn't look like it.

4. Toyota RAV4 (434,943 units sold)

5. Tesla Model Y (385,900 units sold, estimated)

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars...

This source says the Model Y sold 403,897 (still behind the RAV4) https://www.visualcapitalist.com/best-selling-vehicles-in-am...

This source says Model Y sales were 394,497: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/06/top-10-best-selling-cars-in-...

And this source says Model Y was #2 and RAV4 #3.

https://wolfstreet.com/2023/12/07/tesla-model-y-is-2-us-best...

My point stands, Model Y sales are matching RAV4 sales, for all practical purposes. And it happened in the space of a couple years. Toyota sells a lot of cars, but they're not the undisputed king of the hill.

Also, not all RAV4s are hybrids. Model Y definitely outsold RAV4 hybrids. Though hybrids aren't any kind of EV (unless they are plug-in), so that's moot.

Why are we restricting ourselves to Rav4's? Toyota sells well over 2 million EV's per year, far more than all Teslas.

And yes, HEV's are EV's the same way BEV's are.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1181404/alternative-sale...

The vast majority of Toyota hybrids cannot be powered by electricity from the grid. I'd say that's a significant difference.

why do these have to be estimated? I get that Tesla might not be releasing the numbers, but these cars have to be registered, right? The registration numbers seems like it should more accurate as actual owners.

Hybrid. I'm nitpicking, but current full electric Toyota cars are not that good or popular.

Electric cars are not that popular, period.

Hybrids may turn out to be a more popular option.

Hybrids have basically all the possible parts that can break.

But Toyota’s hybrids have a very good reputation regarding longevity and low cost of ownership.

Not really, the transmission can be made much simpler and more robust.

But the entire selling point of Toyota to most people is that it WONT break, at least for 150k miles.

> Electric cars are not that popular, period.

That is a matter of opinion. As a brand new technology, I think a market share approaching 10% is incredible. Only fans thought this was possible even 5 years ago.

What I meant is that Toyota electric cars are not popular inside the electric category. From range to charging speeds, they're behind other brands.

Ha, I read that as Tesla and it's still true. Almost like there's more to a car than range and charing speed.

Yes, there's more to a car than range and charging speeds, but that doesn't change the fact that Tesla makes some of the best selling EVs and that Toyota doesn't.

Even if you care more about build quality and comfort, there are cars from VW, Audi, Hyundai, Mercedes, etc, that are better than, say, the Toyota bZ4X while having better range and charging. Toyota simply doesn't make the best pure electric cars.

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