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Comment by TomK32 | Hacker News Reader

Germany's and Austrias Universities of Applied Science use the same trick, Fachhochschulen is their German name.

Not anymore. They have all(?) rebranded to „Universität“ in German.

But that‘s intentional. Former FHs are practically identical in law to universities. They all have the right to promotion, their masters and bachelors are legally identical to universities‘ masters and bachelors.

The former "Diplom" and "Diplom (FH)" were not identical. When those still existed the distinction of "Universität" and "Fachhochschule" was meaningful. The rebranding is a consequence of the old kind of degrees having been replaced by new ones, not just a marketing trick.

Yes, you're right, the causal link is this.

Not in Austria.

There's a very clear distinction between FHs and Universities. Not necessarily in reputation or level of education, but they are separated entities. And you cannot get a PhD from an FH.

I initially wanted to say that this is entirely wrong, but when I went to do a quick check, I found this: https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promot... So my knowledge was not entirely up to date.

In short, bachelors and masters are indeed legally identical to the ones acquired at universities, but most do not have the right to promotion. This mostly depends on the state they're in. And they are not allowed to call themselves "Universität" (though some have rebranded to "Hochschule").

All FHs that I know do have an option for getting a Phd through them, but they themselves can't grant them. Instead, an FH can cooperate with an Universität through a sort of loophole. The Phd students spend their time at the FH, but they have two supervisors and get their Phd from the "Universität".

But it seems like it is only a matter of time until difference, too, is no more.

Not true that FH degrees are identical in all respects: for the civil service there is still a difference in pay.

The RWTH in Germany still uses Hochschule, but does add University now to their name.

The RWTH has never been a FH, though. It‘s „Technische Hochschule“ for the same reason why the University of Stuttgart was a „Technische Hochschule“ for a long time: traditionalists insist that a university must have medicine, law and religion.

Yes, never FH, but also not university.

No, the RWTH is indeed a university. Many (old) THs were granted the status of "Universität" in the 70s and 80s, see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technische_Universit%C3%A4t

And if you don't trust Wikipedia, the RWTH refers to itself as an "Universität", see here for example: https://www.rwth-aachen.de/cms/root/Die-RWTH/Aktuell/Hochsch... Doing so would be illegal if they weren't one, so I don't see where the claim that they're not comes from.

Yes, it is (and was for a while now) a university but it didn't refer to itself as university until quite recently.

Do you have a source for that claim? This is the first time I'm hearing of a difference in pay for FH and Universität degrees there (regarding bachelor and master, old diploma system doesn't count).

Have a look here with the references to "wissenschaftliche Hochschule" and some differences between between degrees/needs: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Behoerden/Be...

(Slide 9, for example).

Edit: you are right that the difference might not always apply, but they are not always identical by default as far as I understand it.

I can't think of a single example of a former FH having rebranded to "Universität". The closest I can think of is the incorporation of FH Lausitz into BTU Cottbus. In any case, there are still >200 FHs in Germany which are not using the "Universität" label and without right to award doctorates. I'm really not sure what you are talking about.

You seem to be really misinformed about the legal definitions of these tertiary education institutes in Austria.

Universities of applied sciences are governed under the "Fachhochschulgesetz"[1] (Universities of Applied Sciences Law) while universities are governed under the "Universitätsgesetz"[2] (Universities Law). This carries loads of differences with it, i.e. when it comes to academic freedom and right to promotion. Professors at universities of applied sciences are much more limited in their academic freedom and these institutions do not possess the right to promotion at all.

Not sure where you got your information as it's wildly untrue in some respects.

[1] https://ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnorm...

[2] https://ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnorm...

I haven‘t said a word about Austria.

You responded to a comment talking about "Germany's and Austria's Universities of Applied Science" - which countries did you mean if not Germany and Austria?

Germany, obviously.

Enough harassment for tonight?

Many have rebranded themselves as "Hochschule" Not "Universität"

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