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Comment by apetresc | Hacker News Reader

I understand that completely, I even considered including a "Before anyone jumps in with 'akshually that's Element', [..]" disclaimer but decided nobody would be that pedantic.

Element is the same team as the Matrix.org foundation, with the same objectives. I understand why they maintain a separation of concerns at the institutional level, but for someone to say "Matrix offers hosted servers" and to act confused like "What do you mean, who's 'they'? Matrix doesn't do that! Only Element, the organization run by the exact same people, who's only goal is to further the adoption of the Matrix.org spec. I can't possibly fathom what you think the connection is." is the very definition of being disingenuous.

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The people working on Matrix also have quite a few contributions from Beeper, which has little incentive to make Element popular (after all, they'd lose customers to their own service!).

They're mostly the same people (80% of the core spec team works for Element), but not exactly the same people. The Element people that maintain Matrix certainly have a vested interest in Element, but that doesn't make Matrix exclusively Element-oriented.

While you and I understand the distinction, I think it's important to make it clear to other readers here that Element and Matrix are not the same organisation. Because of Matrix's history, and the interlinking between matrix.org and Element, one might assume them to be, and if the opening post shows anything, it's that the Matrix ecosystem can benefit from some additional clarity.

No, they aren't the same team (anymore), and there isn't just Element as a service provider

And yet Thib, mentioned in the article, does say in an another comment that they are employed by Element but working for The Foundation, making it quite hard to know the difference between the two: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39369239

If you dig a bit, I'm sure you'll find this is true for quite a bit of the people either in Element or in The Foundation.

It's hardly a secret that most people working on/for Matrix are employed by Element.

https://matrix.org/about/ has a list of names for the "guardians" of the foundation (whatever that may mean exactly) which consist of 40% Element, 60% external parties. The core spec team at the bottom links to Github profiles, from which I believe 8 out of 10 people work for Element (though I'm not 100% sure if the last person in the list still works for them based on his Github profile tag).

Thib isn't part of the foundation, he's just part of the business side, and quite a public part at that. I think his role is a good example of the distinction between Matrix and Element.

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