Comment by pgeorgi | Hacker News Reader

Comment by pgeorgi | Hacker News Reader

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In 2009, Gazprom proposed various alternatives to the main route, some including alternative routes through Ukraine that Ukraine rejected. In the end they shipped some ~12% of their usual through-Ukraine amount as additional shipments on other routes. Doesn't sound like russia was unwilling to deliver. But I'll concede that point as uncertain, given that the EU fact finding mission to figure out who stopped the shipments to the EU didn't come to conclusive results. (some data in https://www.cep.eu/Analysen_KOM/KOM_2009_363_Sicherheit_der_...)

2014: "Asked if sanctions could affect Russian gas transit, Yatsenyuk said the move could possibly mean halting 'all types of transit, from air flights to transit of resources.'" (https://webarchive.archive.unhcr.org/20230603044044/https://...)

In the end, I think Germany should have gotten out of fossils in general, no matter what happens to Eastern Europe once the mafia-run petrol station that cosplays as a country feels the pressure. would've-should've-could've.

This is a dodge, and you are (rather verbosely) wiggling away from acknowledging a plainly counterfactual statement you just made:

   In 2022 Ukraine shut down the pipeline to the EU in 2009 and again in 2014

You can dissect the 2009 and 2014 gas disputes, and speculate about who "provoked" whom all you want -- but as a matter of public record that it was the the Russian operator who cut the flow of gas in each case, not its counterpart.

if you're quoting me, do so completely: you silently dropped "threatened to do so"

When did they do that? Provide your sources please.

Note that your link from two posts up states:

> Russia in June halted gas supplies to Ukraine in a price dispute that arose as Moscow sought to ramp up political pressure following the exit of Kremlin ally Viktor Yanukovych in February, amid "Euromaidan" street protests and the occupation of public buildings.

That is, Ukraine was not the first mover even within the confines of the trade dispute (ignoring the fact that Russian troops were literally occupying Ukrainian soil and attacking their cities at the time).

Your argument seems to be that Europe was upset that Ukraine, after having been literally fucking attacked by Russia, might cut off the Russian gas supply (even though they didn't), and so Germany was justified in going around Ukraine for gas and ignoring the whole Russia invading their neighbors thing.

TL;DR from 2014-2022 Germany was happy to leave them out to dry.

Since you're still dodging the 2009 issue - you'll need to put forward actual evidence re: 2014.

I acknowledge my quote was imprecise.

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