EVs Will Soon Be Cheaper to Make Than Gas Cars but Will Cost Much More to Repair
jalopnik.com
jalopnik.com
As for crashing, it's commonly understood that even on ICE cars, even minor damage to structural elements can total a 5+ year old car.
I was also surprised that they called out the complexity of EV drivetrains (and charging systems, but I don't know anything about those) as a factor. My prior understanding was that EV drivetrains are significantly simpler than ICE ones, the number of moving parts is comparatively low for EVs, and you don't have the large temperature gradients and intense mechanical impulses that come from repeatedly igniting fuel/air mixtures.
I don't dispute the empirical claims, but as the parent comment implies, I think this is mostly about the maturity of the repair ecosystem, and it's reasonable to expect that that will improve as EVs become more prevalent. It's not a reason to stop, it's a reason to keep going.
If Hyundai won't fix it for less than $60k, and they total the car for scuff marks on the bottom, where does that leave you? Maybe you can get that Youtuber to fix it for you?
There's a similar video on youtube about repairing a dent in a Rivian truck. The official repair by a dealer was quoted at more than $40k as it involved replacing the entire single piece panel that was "damaged". Instead, a small auto body shop spent the 2 days needed to gently pull out the dent, fill in the scratches and touch up the paint for something like $3k.
Not all mechanics are created equal. Find one that's willing to work with you, which will become easier as electric vehicles become more common.
The problem with the Rivian was the body is all in one piece and made of aluminum, which is not easily reworked. Making the bed of a truck out of a soft metal that is hard to rework is a bad idea. But perhaps there is someone out there who could do it cheap.
Other times a mechanic shows a degree of cleverness that makes them well worth compensating them for the time, like using an infrared camera app on their phone to find a wiring harness short in a minute rather than spending hours crawling around the chassis.
There are gasoline cars on the road that have a million miles on them. There are plenty of others over 50 years old still running great. If you think they're even remotely as fragile and difficult to rebuild as EVs, you are sadly mistaken.
Part of the story is EVs are getting into more accidents. I've seen an interesting theory as to why that is: they simply accelerate faster. Whether that increase in acceleration is causing accidents or causing people to get exhilarated with the new-found power and causing them to drive more recklessly is anybody's guess. Another interesting theory I've seen on that front is the earlier generations of Teslas were so expensive that only the well-off, and therefore tend to be older and more responsible, drivers could afford them. Now younger drivers are able to afford them and their driving habits aren't the same as their older counterparts and you're putting extremely capable muscle car capabilities into their hands that they've never had before. Many young guys get high on that kind of power and cause accidents.
It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.
I also hope a lot of right to repair legislation and privacy legislation catches up with what has been happening in cars and that will make it easier to choose how a vehicle gets repaired and produce some competition.
ICEs are not much better. I replaced a wi dscreen on an old 2015 and it cost $400. the mechanic said I was lucky the next year's version had a built in collusion avoidance camera system and I would HAVE to go to the dealer to fix it for ~$1,200
In my opinion, there are way too many “assistance” systems in modern cars. In the USA, modern trucks and SUVs are built so high that it obstructs a significant amount of view directly in front of the vehicle. It’s become such a hazard to children and possibly some adults.
The solution by the industry? Add a camera to the front bumper…
It’s totally not the product we are selling. It’s the person!!1!
I dread the day I have to retire my sedan and forced to upgrade to a modern vehicle. I am even reluctant to upgrade to an EV due to the anti-repair trend most manufacturers have opted us into.
Let’s not forget the privacy nightmare…
Give me a manual transmission vehicle, a backup camera, a small to midsize car, and something that I can maintain myself. That’s all I need.
If they did, and you crashed, you could play victim and blame it on them disabling a system you thought you had.
Everyone loses with nanny-cars.
I'm leaving it unchanged as it is too funny in this context. :-)
In any case, the cost of repairs is a temporary effect. Mostly this is just dealer ignorance and a lack of mechanics that know how to do these repairs. So, they are learning on the job, making beginners mistakes, and are having issues correctly diagnosing problems with cars they are supposed to fix. This all adds up to higher bills. But that should get less of an issue as these repairs become more routine and people get trained up.
Otherwise, the TCO of EVs was already quite favorable for fleet owners, lease companies, and anyone capable of using the power of spreadsheets needed to calculate the difference. There are some clear trends there. For commercial fleets, EVs are very popular because they are simply better from an economic point of view. With purchase price of new vehicles dropping below that of equivalent ICE vehicles soon, this is going to become more obvious for less calculating consumers as well.
Scarcity/cost of parts? Lack of trained maintenance personnel? Hopefully that is an issue that is mitigated by an increase in marketshare.
I've personally watched a man in a powered wheelchair single-handedly and nearly effortlessly completely disassemble an EV battery so my gut tells me it isn't any increase in difficulty of repair due to the battery and it seems that most of the rest of the cars are similar to ICE automobiles-- and surely motors are easier and cheaper to work on than engines?
You are right in a way. ICE engines can be expensive to work on. But even the most dramatic repairs to ICE engines is presently cheaper than a typical EV battery. You could probably change the engine and transmission in a car for $10-15k, and that is very rarely necessary. Most repairs are minor for the life of the car, which could (up to the latest techno-trash designs) be easily 20 years or 300-500k miles. If auto makers wanted to, they could make ICE cars expected to last 30-50 years with routine maintenance and occasional replacement of worn-out parts. But they won't because it would put them out of business. Besides, people like new shiny things and being different.
More resources to build each vehicle. Higher costs of production. Car manufacturers need to often farm out the technical aspects as well and need to license the tech. More sensors and cameras. More and more points of failure. Reliability of vehicles is dropping. Wasteful idiots trading in vehicles more often.
It’s disgusting.
I've been holding onto an old vehicle now for some time and the car market has only worsened. When the 2016 Miata was released, I had hoped for a resurgence in simple sportiness. Recently Toyota released a light truck IMV-0 . I can't think of too many elegant vehicles out there otherwise.
Whales don't do basic cost vs utility analysis, love bling, and make purchase decisions for socio-emotional reasons.
Other thing is as energy density increases the weight penalty for EV's is dropping. Possible that eventually EV's will be lighter than gas cars as well.
The energy density of gasoline is about 100x the energy density of batteries. Batteries can have other advantages but it's pure fantasy to think batteries will beat the energy density of gasoline.
EVs are more efficient than ICE, so you gain 2-3x there. Then, if we’re talking city driving ICE is even less efficient unless they’re hybrid or ideally plug-in hybrid, in which case much of the weight benefit goes out the door.
Then you’ve got the fact that batteries are now being used as a structural member, which you can’t do with a gas tank.
Then there’s volumetric energy density. Gas tanks necessarily eat into the usable volume within the car. Batteries can just be integrated in the floor of the car.
In theory, if you drove around with a huge gas tank you could exploit the benefits of the high energy density, getting range that an EV could never hope to match. You could drive for thousands of kilometres without refuelling. But with the gas tanks that cars are actually delivered with, for the kind of range people actually need, the weight of the engine/transmission becomes a very significant fraction of the whole drivetrain+energy storage.
I really don’t see the point of throwing the “100x” number around when it’s completely obvious from looking at real-world vehicles that the actual achievable difference is far, far smaller, and that we’re 1-2 generations of battery chemistry improvements away from weight parity for a vehicle with the kind of range people actually need.