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Comment by seltzered_ | Hacker News Reader

I would actually consider dense urban cul-de-sacs (or just quieter streets with less road noise in general) for knowing neighbors well. My issue with grids is there's generally an arterial street where apartments are crammed and nobody knows each other due to road noise.

References:

- sebastian hunger anecdote on cul de sacs: https://youtu.be/E9K43cXZg2Q?si=4Z5WgE4izKM5A0SF

- don appleyard's livable streets: https://vimeo.com/16399180

Can't find it but recall seeing a map someone made of a city in southeast Asia (Thailand or vietnam) illustrating how theres lots of cul-de-sacs

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There's less road noise in my streetcar suburb two miles from downtown than my parents home in the actual suburbs. The 'arterial' street here is four lanes compared to the six lane giant stroads of the modern suburb my parents live in. Cities aren't noisy... Cars are. Walkers and bikers make no noise.

Apartments are great for knowing neighbors and we have lovely apartment buildings and condos that would be perfect for old couples or young ones.

I truly don't understand the logic here. If you want streets with less traffic just build narrower streets. We're lucky that our streets were built before cars (still have the horse rings on the sidewalk)... No one speeds. How could you?

We do have some 'cul de sacs' that are passable by walkers and bikes but not cars. These have their place but a walkable grid is an absolute requirement for sanity in my opinion.

“Walkable” and “grid” are orthogonal concerns.

London and Tokyo are two examples of very walkable non-grids, which I prefer to American grid-based city planning — the random connections fuel serendipity.

I think the problem in modern suburbs is really fortress-like unconnected developments, which also appear in urban form as overscaled block+ monoliths. The Metreon in San Francisco is a good example, or the ugly “italianate” Geoff Palmer apartment blocks around downtown Los Angeles.

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