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Comment by chasing | Hacker News Reader

As with all things, it’s great having extra time. As long as you can afford it.

The financial situation of writers always seems a bit mystical and magical to me.

How can they spend so much time writing?

Are they independently wealthy? Do they have a job we just don’t hear about, and they write in their own time? Do they not have families depending on them?

I’d love to have a life of leisure pursuing the highest quality of a thing I can build over a decade. But my family also needs to eat.

A lot of published writers have a spouse with a full time (generally high paying) job, as far as I can tell.

Or, for non-fiction, the writing is part of and/or in support of an actual paying job.

all of the published writers i know have a day job. many of them are teachers. there are a few outliers who live off of their book sales.

If they're famous writers, they spend the money they made from their book rights, advances, and the luckier financially, movie and tv deals. I mean, Stephen King had enough money to spend 10 lifetimes to leisurly write a single word a day by 1990 already.

If they're not so famous, the have regular day jobs, or usually writing related side gigs, like writing articles for magazines (at least back when this made you a livable wage), teaching literature, and so on.

Others are independently wealthy, or have spouses who support them.

And some still live in poverty and make it day to day, with random gigs and the kindness of strangers.

Or doing writing-related day jobs like writing/editing company stuff and the like. With pretty rare exceptions, writing what you want to write for yourself isn't a sustainable job.

I had been assuming that at least one of Kornbluth or Pohl had been working as a copywriter to pay the bills and that The Space Merchants was a kind of revenge. (similar to how At the Bridge seems to have been inspired by Böll's stint in a statistics office and the Retief series by Laumer's work for Foggy Bottom)

(EDIT: "Cordwainer Smith" worked PSYOPs for Uncle Sam, and pointed out in a textbook that as psychological warfare operators make their career in being economical with the truth [he wrote several decades too early to have "spin doctor" in his vocabulary] one should not rely on their self-evaluations of their own effectiveness. I wonder if this were a dig at Bernays, who seems to have been willing to push his own brand at least as hard as he pushed those of his clients?

Finally, William Faulkner's resignation from his post office day job: As long as I live under the capitalistic system, I expect to have my life influenced by the demands of moneyed people. But I will be damned if I propose to be at the beck and call of every itinerant scoundrel who has two cents to invest in a postage stamp.)

i relate to this kafka quote:

> When I tried to get out of bed today I simply collapsed. There’s a very simple reason for it, I am completely overworked. Not by the office but by my other work. The office plays an innocent part in it only insofar as, if I didn’t have to go there, I could live in peace for my work and wouldn’t have to spend those 6 hours a day there, which have so tormented me that you cannot imagine it, especially on Friday and Saturday, because I was full of my concerns. In the end as I am well aware this is only chatter, it’s my fault and the office has the clearest and most justified claims on me. But for me it is a horrible double life from which insanity is probably the only way out.

Steven King had a supporting spouse ;)

My point about him being, for the last 40 plus years, he didn't need one!

King was also a schoolteacher for years. Tolkien was a college professor (and famously wrote the opening lines of The Hobbit on the blank side of an exam paper).

So did Dean Koontz. I don't remember if they agreed upon one year or five years for him to make a living at it before he would give up and get a regular job if he didn't succeed. What ever the time period they agreed upon it worked out for him.

I know it's not your main point, but writing for magazines is almost one of the only viable ways to "make it" as a writer/journalist nowadays. Far better than papers/online outlets most of the time.

you can sign a book deal to write a book and get paid an advance against your royalties. for a major publisher and a "normal" author this would typically be five figures.

those are hard to get, especially your first one, and also it's not quite enough money, but it's not completely ridiculous that it could fund some full-time writing.

No, it doesn’t fund full time because the advance isn’t paid all in advance! It’s often paid in thirds or even fourths at the this point, with the final payment not occurring until well after the book is published. So like one third on acceptance, one third on editing being done, one third once the book hit shelves. Or one fourth on acceptance, one fourth on editing, one fourth on hard copies being out, one fourth on a soft copy being out. Even with a six figure advance, you are not getting 100k that year, maybe 33-66k depending on how slow your editor is, and of course your agent takes a bite out of that, and you pay a high tax on it too.

You sacrifice things - video games, TV, doomscrolling. There just isn't enough time to do all that and write. That's what most would-be writers are unwilling to give up.

For the vast majority of writers, writing is not their main household source of income. The average book is not profitable if you account for even minimum wage.

In the UK, the average full time writer earns less than they would at McDonalds, but their average household income is well above average. In other words: Most rely on a reasonably well earning partner.

And full time writers are rare even among fairly successful writers published by big publishers.

“Life of leisure”?

I have a few friends who have written NYTs best sellers. They made no money from them. One friend of mine is quite famous, writes regularly for the NYTs magazines… and again.. no money (not $0 but not enough to buy a new laptop). They give a lot of lectures and public speaking, most of which pay $0.

It’s hard to write for more than a few hours a day, when you do it every day. You spend the rest of your time researching, organizing, day job, raising children, divorcing, etc.

That's why some of us (probably most) go to work every day...some in desk jobs (like me, still working on a novel I started almost two decades ago), some who are housewives with husbands who work (and vice versa), some teachers, some bus drivers. What you do to put food on the table often has nothing to do with your writing, which can be fit into your life on the weekends, in the evenings, on lunchbreaks, on the bus...

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