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Comment by wolverine876 | Hacker News Reader

The congestion tax works by keeping poor people off the roads of Manhatten. Who else is deterred by it?

$15 is nothing to wealthier people; their only objection will be spending the time processing the payment. But if you are making minimum wage, it's a calculation. Fees are regressive taxes.

If you are poor, you are effectively not welcome south of 60th street; that's for the rich people. If the city wants to raise revenue, how about a tax where the wealthy make an equal sacrifice. If they want to reduce congestion, how about having global businesses like Uber bid on road capacity.

Don't forget the fundamentals that made the US and NY great: All are created equal, the American dream, the land of opportunity, democratic equality, equality under the law. Manhatten is (and NYC more generally is) in many ways more than this being turned into an island for the wealthy.

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If you are poor and not taking advantage of the 50% off public transit fares, then I think this would be doing you a favor. Also there is no way you can afford to even park below 60th street all day. That would be prohibitive on its own.

> If you are poor and not taking advantage of the 50% off public transit fares, then I think this would be doing you a favor.

In our free society, which prizes liberty above all else, government and you don't get to decide what others should do; they get to decide for themselves. And that absolutely shouldn't depend on income or wealth.

Sure, you are free to do what you want, but that doesn't mean the government shouldn't make it more sensible for people to NOT do bad things (like overspend unnecessarily).

This tax doesn't have anything to do with income or wealth. You are free to pay the toll and keep driving into the city.

I mean is the goal to be fair or to reduce congestion?

Fairness is a requirement. 'Liberty and justice for all'.

That’s why there’s an excellent transit system. If you’re poor, nobody is giving you a car, insurance, parking, fuel, and maintenance for “fairness”.

Indeed, with all the taxes it is no longer affordable.

> If you’re poor, nobody is giving you a car, insurance, parking, fuel, and maintenance for “fairness”.

Nobody is saying to give it to them. But fairness is that they have equal access to the roads. The idea that wealthy people have more access to public roads is really an abomination in the US.

You're free to suggest public transit, but they need to be free to make their own choices, completely disregarding what you - incredibly - think they should do.

If you’re concerned about fairness, look at what percentage of the 30th percentile income one needs to have a car to use those roads in the first place. If that was a serious argument, every highway would have first class pedestrian and bike infrastructure for the fifth of the population who can’t or don’t drive.

You really don't think 'fairness' is essential in law and govenrment and society. It's pretty fundamental to humanity.

The fact that it's not achieved in some ways makes it more important that it's delivered in others, and for us to stand up for it.

I find it conspicuous that your definition of fairness is letting other people subsidize your lifestyle. If you cared about fairness, paying for what you use is about as fair as it gets.

> If you cared about fairness, paying for what you use is about as fair as it gets.

Only in a libertarian fantasy where you only deserve, as a human being, what you personally pay for - even access to public roads! Should the wealthy have privileged access to everything? What about those wealthy people who pay no taxes?

We all are subsidized very heavily by our ancestors - consider the difference between a barren country devoid of all development and what you were born into. And more importantly, what humans have a right to, what is moral, etc. does not depend on money. Fairness isn't generally or primarily dependent on how much people spend.

Roads are public goods, built by everyone for everyone.

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