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Comment by masklinn | Hacker News Reader

> If `UPDATE player SET level = 'AA' WHERE team = 'Gophers';` is executed before the player swap, then why should "Stonebreaker" be upgraded to "AA"? I'd be pretty mad at my database if I sent those 2 queries in sequence and my DB decided to re-order them.

It’s easy to miss but in the swap query the levels also get swapped. Because — and it’s harder to miss but easy to skip over — given what constraint 2 says the level is actually a team level, not a player level.

So in a seqcst view, either the team’s players get upgraded to AA then the players’ levels get swapped during the exchange, or the players get exchanged then the team’s players get upgraded.

In both sequences you end up with Stonebaker as an AA gopher and Lamport as an A dolphin.

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> given what constraint 2 says the level is actually a team level, not a player level.

Then it's bad unnormalized data design that is the problem here. If that is a team level, it should be in the team table, not the player table.

> Then it's bad unnormalized data design that is the problem here.

That the table is not normalised makes the example somewhat confusing but it does not actually affect the issue being demonstrated. And denormalisation is a fact of data modelling.

Why not simply use an example that isn't confusing? Many developers, and especially academics, love wasting effort and time on solving issues they made up but that have no real life examples. When using examples that have trivial alternative solutions, it does not help me as a reader to distinguish whether this is a real problem, or something made up.

Because every example you can think of is confusing, because understanding how concurrent transactions should operate is confusing.

Almost all problems like this can be solved by improving an application data model, but here’s the thing, lots applications have dodgy data models, either due to time constraints, or because the application evolved over time, and the data model didn’t. So these are all real world problems and examples, but creating a “simple” problem to demonstrate the issue almost certainly means also creating an example where other “obvious” solutions exist.

Just because you can’t imagine how this simple example might represent a much more complex “real world” problem, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

> If that is a team level, it should be in the team table, not the player table.

It's all contrived, of course, but the reason I would consider skill level to be a player attribute rather than a team attribute is that there could be free agents with a skill level but no team:

INSERT INTO player VALUES (10, 'Pavlo', 'AAA', NULL);

Then with enough free agents, you could imagine building a new team out of free agents that are all at the same skill level:

UPDATE player SET team = 'Otters' WHERE level = 'AAA' AND team IS NULL ORDER BY id LIMIT 3;

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