Cheap Mortgages Deter Workers from Relocating for $250k Jobs | Hacker News Reader

Cheap Mortgages Deter Workers from Relocating for $250k Jobs

bloomberg.com

39 pointssafaa199327 comments

Am I missing something or did the writer just drop this line in the middle of the article with no context:

> But salaries in Michigan for all manager roles are typically around 15% to 20% higher than for comparable roles in the south, she said.

Why on earth would anyone move for a job paying 20% less, regardless of their mortgage status?

If taxes and CoL end up being more than 20% less, then it can be profitable to move.

They would have to be much more than 20% less. Taxes and living costs are typically far lower than income for the types of jobs that people would consider moving for. 20% higher income is 20% more of a larger number than the 20% higher costs, making it more profitable to live in the high cost of living area.

The article was written by the writer then edited and titled by the bosses at Bloomberg.

Yep. I have written for several large publications. We submit the article, usually are required to submit 3-10 possible titles (depending on the publication), and the editors rarely use any of the 10 titles anyway.

Fun fact, many publications also make you submit a handful of social media post headlines too.

Most people don't realize that the author's content and the title are written by completely different people. Titles are generally designed by committee. A company like Bloomberg will have software in their CMS where 3 different titles are probably added at publish time and the CMS automatically A/B (and C) tests them for the first hour or so to see which performs best before automatically locking in the best performing headline. This is why you sometimes swear an article's headline has changed... it most likely has. This is also true with most major YouTube channels. The thumbnails and headlines are aggressively tested during the first 60-120 minutes before locking in the highest performing combination.

We need an AI tool to auto de-clickbait headlines

I'm in the south, and not sure I'd want to move back north for 15% more, and... I'm 'stuck' with a cheap mortgage. I don't like cold weather. My wife doesn't mind it. I'd go back for a lot more, but 15% ain't tempting enough.

With 15% more on salary you’ll make less due to HCOL. Possibly even 30% wouldn’t cut it..

Yeah, I've got some numbers that would make me move, but most traditional w2 jobs don't come close. I know they exist, but just not plentiful.

> Why on earth would anyone move for a job paying 20% less, regardless of their mortgage status?

Weather, relationships, interests outside of work, politics, crime are a few that immediately come to mind.

That seems like a bizarre way of framing it. It's the much higher current costs that are the deterrent.

I'm sweating moving for just this reason. I do have some experience at landlording in one of the battleground states--tenant overfriendly--so I guess in this landlord friendly state I can do it, but I'm sure J. random manager isn't going to want to do that.

> tenant overfriendly--so I guess in this landlord friendly state I can do it

I get a concern with -over- friendly, and there are certainly some mechanics that are painful that way, but "landlord friendly" is generally ... oof. "We need to protect those who can afford to buy multiple homes from those who cannot[1] afford to buy one".

I've lived in landlord friendly states where the recourse for water leaks, failing hot water, faulty appliances that the landlord won't maintain is ... "sucks to be you".

[1] for varying definitions of 'cannot', thinking of the euphemism of "Bank says I can't afford a $2,000 mortgage payment so I guess I'll keep paying my $3,000 rent payment."

Is it just mortgage rates or is it that moving down to the southern United States is not all that appealing for other reasons? There is clearly an amount of money that would convince me to move to "the US south" but as of yet nobody has offered it. There is a significant quality of life and sanity cost that I would prefer to not incur.

As somebody who lives in the US South, this is spot on. I doubt I would choose to move here. Definitely not for a pay cut as the article implies.

It's hard to quantify, but as someone who grew up in the south and left, the "unappeal" is definitely apart of the calculus.

Not only do the outdoor activities pale in comparison to what you get in other parts of the country, but additionally so much of the political rhetoric, attitude, and actions isn't just "I want myself, my family, and my neighbors to do well" but "I want other people to suffer."

It's truly a terrible micro-society within the U.S.

Like anywhere, there are of course tons of nice/great people and some nice places. But exceptions, rules, etc.

Stayed in the South many years and while yes they can be busy bodies, I don’t think they actually wish ill on others.

Unfortunately a lot of US politics has become more about hurting your opponents rather than uplifting your own. Not saying everyone in the South is like this but it is a growing attitude. “He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”[1]

1: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/tr...

I was born and raised in rural Oklahoma. Most of my family is still there or in Texas. Most of them fit the stereotypes of ignorant rural conservatives. They are angry at their lack of "success" at life and blame it on everyone they can. They are absolutely malicious in this regard.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/jonathan-m-metzl-dying...

> Even on death’s doorstep, Trevor was not angry. In fact, he staunchly supported the stance promoted by his elected officials. “Ain’t no way I would ever support Obamacare or sign up for it,” he told me. “I would rather die.” When I asked him why he felt this way even as he faced severe illness, he explained: “We don’t need any more government in our lives. And in any case, no way I want my tax dollars paying for Mexicans or welfare queens.”

People like this exist in significant numbers. I know because I'm related to and grew up around way too many of them.

The south has above average inmigration, and below average outmigration.

So, probably you and your peers like you would never move there, but a ton of people are moving there:

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/11/state-to-stat...

https://archive.is/JrM47

Nobody wants to 2x their monthly mortgage, raise would have to be much higher to make it worth it.

So offer then higher salaries to offset the costs of moving there? What exactly is the problem?

These are already high salaries, and they're still not enough.

And that's a good thing. These companies need to pay the true price for talent, which is much higher than what they're paying but also they've done a lot of dirty tricks to grow as big as they are; the real price for what they're asking should bleed them dry.

No, the northern states need to raise their mortgages so the southern states can keep their salaries low!

Yep. While startup salaries are, and have always been, a joke, it's corporate cost of living adjustments (COLAs) that are a worsening joke when they fail to account for true COL differences. If a megacorp insists on relocating you from Austin, TX to Menlo Park, CA it should include a 75% TC raise or it would be a pay cut and wouldn't make economic sense. It's imperative that rational employees hold corporations accountable and refuse to be underpaid because not doing so hurts everyone else in the industry.

Rent a house in the new location + Rent out your curent house. Not ideal but you can do this for a few years to enjoy the increased tendies.

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