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Comment by rybosworld | Hacker News Reader

A company I worked at years ago, the VP of the department sat in on all of my annual reviews with my manager. He would mostly just listen in. But at the end of the meeting he would always say something to the effect of: "as you know, you can't discuss your compensation with coworkers." I knew it was illegal for him to say that but, if it's not in writing then there's basically no recourse.

I understand this to be a fairly common experience in the U.S. workforce.

When it comes to labor laws in particular, the rate of enforcement is extremely low.

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>he would always say something to the effect of: "as you know, you can't discuss your compensation with coworkers." I knew it was illegal for him to say that but, if it's not in writing then there's basically no recourse.

Follow-up email: "Thanks for the helpful feedback in the review! And yes, as instructed, I would never dream of talking to co-workers about compensation. I know that's against policy."

Then, either he puts in writing that it's not policy, or you've started a paper trail.

You're also fired. Nothing wrong with that, just saying

Why would you want to know what you're making compared to your coworkers?

You agreed to the pay. Want more? Ask more. If you're making 2x more than your "peers" would you take a cut to equal pay?

The point is that there is an information imbalance, which enables one side to have more power in negotiating. Sure I can say "give me more money" but if the employer presumes I have little information on my co-workers, they can just say no. But if I call the bluff and say, I want more money because I know a co-worker makes X, it is harder to say no for the employer, although obviously not impossible.

The employer doesn't know how much you'll work, if you'll quit early or give up or make mistakes or not bother to show up.

Information is missing on both sides.

Contracts are open with all Information available. To that route if you're wanting to make more than the W2

> The employer doesn't know how much you'll work, if you'll quit early or give up or make mistakes or not bother to show up.

Knowing salary is also useful for existing employees, and in that case (in the US) the employer likely does know all of those things.

This is true to an extent...but most people with a job are not looking to get fired while most employers are looking to cut costs, and from my experience most employers are just fine to spend 3 months looking for a replacement, only to pay them more(this is bewildering to me). In my opinion this kind of 'war of attrition' hurts both sides and is a sub-optimal option.

Keeping employees from discussing compensation is the easiest way for employers to undercompensate employees (and avoid keeping pace with the market).

The market is the average and the market is always open.

I’m trying to minimize my labor while maximizing my income, within a system designed to produce asymmetrical information.

You're trading your skills, time, and experience without taking the risk of capital and legal risks.

Sure, and we're trading it for money. If the question is "why would you want to know what your coworkers make", the answer is "so I can leverage that information during negotiation for more compensation". If the question is "why wouldn't you want to optimize for your employers' ROI, considering they take on all of the risk", then I wonder why you suggested it would be absurd to take a 50% paycut.

Like everyone else in the Limited Liability Corporation? Doesn’t that make me wise?

Because you don't have a clue what the market will bear.

The company cares enough to try to (illegaly) keep that information advantage.

If I’m paid twice that of my colleagues, I’d want to support them (unless they’re detrimental to my job satisfaction) in getting paid more so that they’re less likely to be recruited away purely for financial reasons. I’d also be concerned about the future projection of my own comp.

I don't want to know what my coworkers make, nor do I want them to know what I make. Too many feathers to potentially ruffle there.

However, I'm all on board with the idea that people who do want to exchange this information should be free to do so without punishment from their employer.

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