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Comment by freedomben | Hacker News Reader

> I attempted to charge back the purchase since they did not provide what I paid for (tickets I could sell), and they fought me and won somehow.

This has happened to me twice now (though not with TicketMaster) and I was 100% in the right, and I lost. When I mentioned it on HN I was met with a lot of doubters. I think something has really changed regarding chargebacks.

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Subjectively, I've seen a lot more conversation on the internet in the last few years about people using chargebacks, often in contexts where it's obvious to me as an outside observer that they're abusing the system by doing chargebacks compulsively without even trying to resolve things with the merchant.

It wouldn't surprise me if we're seeing a tragedy of the commons: chargebacks were easy as long as people were inculturated to use them as a last resort. Now that enough people reach for them first, banks have to look at each one more closely and they're going to err in the direction that takes less work.

100% chargebacks have changed in the last 2-3 years. I had a vendor send me the wrong part and refuse a refund. Even showing that they sent the wrong part despite ordering the correct part, my chargeback was denied.

I think a lot of banks have gotten weary of chargeback scams and taking the brunt of Amazon's binning practices.

Frankly, I'd think it better if they just cut off those bad retailers from the system, which is where the failing is. Alas, monopolies in -that- sector as far as I know prevent a single bank from doing a whole lot, especially when it's a vendor that does so much volume that all the legitimate chargebacks won't risk their standing with the payment processors.

Chargebacks are only as aggressive as the bank's customers are willing to enforce by leaving / suing against the vendor's level of customer expectation of service. Outside of a vocal minority, no one is going to want a card that doesn't work on amazon.

The playing field has been rapidly shrinking, and the customer base is much more stressed and unwilling to fight.

Not to mention that's also roughly around the timeframe that binding arbitration really got pervasive.

I'm not sure why. In many cases the merchant is charged a chargeback fee regardless of whether they are in the right or not. The bank gets paid either way.

> taking the brunt of Amazon's binning practices

Amazon has a lot of flaws, but I've never once had an issue returning an item for a full refund. I'm sure chargebacks are up in recent years, but I'm not sure it's Amazon that's to blame.

i think this is a reference to amazon's co-mingling of inventory regardless of where it came from, which results in businesses selling legitimate items having customers that get sent counterfeit goods.

I think a lot of people have been abusing chargebacks (e.g. "I didn't like the item, so I chargedback rather than returning it") and they clamped down on it, and it affects us normal people moreso.

They most definitely have some BS in the fine print about how they're not responsible for their awful system, as CYA for things like this. Truly scum of the earth.

If I had to guess, it is probably in their fine print, and the ability to pay for a refund would be a further refutation in a chargeback case.

That the ticket could not be sold via their system for whatever reason, is not a 'simple' act, although TBH maybe they should write to the DOJ or whatever... given some of the other stuff they've been caught doing, it would not at all surprise me to see some `if (!ticket.HadRefundOption) throw` hidden in their sales system.

TBH OP (Not a lawyer, not legal advice) you could always try small claims, they might not even show up and then you can collect a default judgement

You may win the judgement in small claims court, but how will you collect? That is another dilemma.

Isn't this where the hilarious "sheriff showed up at the office, graciously giving them 30 minutes to cut a check before he started to confiscate the chairs" stories come from?

What would be the problem? I imagine it'd be straightforward but I'm naive about this stuff.

Given that ticketmaster and live nation own venues all over the place, you should have somewhere for a sheriff to enforce a judgement.

> how they're not responsible for their awful system,

Yea, this is something that has to be protected by consumer rights laws. Otherwise companies will be like "It's unfortunate we have a monopoly, but fuck off and give us your money. Thank You. Your case has been closed".

which bank if you feel free comfortable sharing?

It was USAA. I don't know if this matters, but it was a Visa card.

For the record I'm very pleased with USAA overall and I think quite highly of them.

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