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Comment by whoomp12341 | Hacker News Reader

its about inspiration, resources, and most of all community

In this day and age, are resources really that scarce? You can find literally anything on the web. Inspiration has to come from within you, just like discipline and motivation.

As for the community, even though Women Who Code is closing, there are plenty of others.

> Inspiration has to come from within you, just like discipline and motivation.

My experience tells me that this is quite a male way of looking at things. How many times have you heard "we need representation" from women, whether it be in films or board rooms or elsewhere. They're telling us something, role models matter more to them, for whatever reason. (In general, of course.)

If we could find out why some people need role models more then perhaps they could be helped to find that inspiration regardless of there being a role model available or not.

maybe because men already have representation in films, board rooms, etc?

Where men do not have representation, do you hear men saying that boys need to see it in order to inspire them to try for that?

Of course not, because there are few to no desirable spaces that are underrepresented by men.

But even less undesirable spaces that are underrepresented by men.

Yes! However it's in different places. There is a lot of talk about how we choose to represent men on screen, and what it means for the boys we raise. A lot of people have been cheering for less traditionally masculine characters. Some of my friends have been welcoming this sort of representation because it used to be so rare.

In the workplace? Some men would love to see the normalisation of male nurses, male kindergarten teachers and the like. Perhaps they're not as loud because these jobs don't command six figure salaries?

Are you talking about male feminists? They would seem to be the exception that proves the rule, especially as I made a distinction between males (who are largely masculine, by definition) and females (who aren't). Given that feminism - as much as the party line is that it's for everyone - is, certainly of late, solely for promoting women's interests without regard to or at the expense of men and boys. The notion that masculinity is toxic is not something that comes from men, after all.

Perhaps, given that there is a bimodal distribution of masculine and feminine traits across males and females, I could reformulate my statement and make it more precise: those that are of a more feminine expression of being might require or feel they require prior representation in order to give younger people in the same group the confidence to try for such a position. Males (in general, due to masculinity) do not, which is why they do not see the need for any representation (humans tend to think everyone thinks like them).

The real problem is in how both views could be reconciled - that of needing representation versus the more male view of acquiring position through competition (and thus implied competence). Hence, we have the DEI/affirmative action debate.

My own view is that competition should win over representation, but that everyone should be shown how they can compete effectively. Doesn't the history of sport - of competition - show us that every shape or skill can provide a competitive advantage in different contexts, so the key is to get a team to make those contexts arise more often and thus improve one's chances of winning?

In short, show girls how to compete and remove the need to patronise them as women. Maybe that's me being male, but I at once believe in merit and competition, and in women's ability to be effective in most roles (as I believe about men).

Innate differences in affinity for working with things vs people as an explanation for the difference in career choices between men and women, is a simpler explanation with more evidence behind it.

And yet when NCIS showed a woman as a forensic scientist, women became >70% of applicants to forensic science programs. https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/probing-question-do-... Role models matter.

There is nothing in the link that you posted that demonstrates a direct causal link between NCIS and the increase in female applicants to forensic science programs? The closest thing to a claim is a handwavy "...inspired in part by..." with no substantiation whatsoever.

The film Hackers starring Angelina Jolie will be 30 years old next year.

Wasn't playing on primetime for years on end though.

The market for NCIS is men with gray hair.

I would guess most of that comes from women seemingly really liking stuff like Dateline, murder mystery podcasts, etc.

yes, when you know what you are looking for you can find it.

What would I have done without that inspiration, resources and community when I started as nerdy teenager on my own in my room..?

probably just sat in your room and got a career pushing a broom

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