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Comment by CogitoCogito | Hacker News Reader

So if the law were changed to remove said liability, you would support a freedom to roam in the US?

I would compromise if they offer me in trade ability to shoot trespassers/"roamers" who are criminal traffickers.

So you want to be judge, jury, and executioner. Doesn't sound like a compromise to me. In Norway, where I grew up anyone shooting at someone taking advantage of the ability to roam would be rightly subject to a massive manhunt.

Your asking for me to relinquish some of my private property rights. Obviously I want something in trade, it's not gonna be unilateral charity so traffickers can be judge jury and executioner against my children who roam my property.

>Norway, where I grew up anyone shooting at someone

In Arizona you can shoot these people with ak47, thankfully and get charges dropped after a deadlocked jury. As recently happened.

I'm pretty happy with Norway doing their Norway thing and Arizona doing how we handle it here. Not interested in making the US Norway.

I’m confused why you think this would put you at increased risk. You are allowed to defend yourself against threats today. Why do you think that would change?

Though you are also speaking as if people camping on your land away from your dwelling are necessarily threatening. If that is something you believe, you might want to reflect and ask yourself why.

If you don't understand why, I'm going to guess you haven't spent much time in remote US/Mexico border regions far from ports of entry.

To me, you come across as one of the greater risks to people's safety in your area.

I'm asking you to stop denying the public freedoms in return for getting the same freedom yourself.

Nobody is asking you to allow others to do violence against you. But that you want to be free to deprive others of life and liberty on the basis of guesses strikes as a brutally authoritarian attitude.

I'm fine with keeping private property rights so there's no guessing and trespassing is hardline crossing that fence. It was merely an offer as a potential trade since you wanted something for free that involved guessing who is a roamer. Obviously property owners aren't trading away interests unless you're ponying up something sweeten the deal.

I see your attitude as essentially robbing the public of liberty, and I don't get why the US public puts up with being stripped of freedom that way. One of the reasons I am happy I don't live somewhere so oppressive. Though the UK is only marginally better (Scotland much more so than England and Wales) and has been quite the adjustment from Norway compared to the attitude of wanting it to be ok to kill people it's amazing.

I see all liberty as stemming from private property rights. Thus the freedom to roam can only take away your liberty, not add to it.

We’re talking people walking across or camping on your land and in both cases staying away from any residences where people actually live. How would you even know someone is trafficking?

Hmm might want to reword it as reasonably believe, then let the jury figure it as they did with the rancher with an AK who recently walked.

Only if they can shoot at you too if they reasonably believe you're a threat to their safety. Which it sounds like you'd be likely to be.

Deal. Not like they cared about law anyway, so it'll change nothing. They're already looking at life for the kind of armed trafficking they're already doing.

Sounds like you live in a third world war zone. Why do you stay if it is that bad?

Dumb laws made it prohibitively expensive to build most places, then idiotic monetary policy of the fed caused price explosions particularly during the COVID era. Then all the real estate got locked up in near 0% mortgages people will never give up locking my family out of a home almost anywhere

In short, I got priced out most everywhere and had to go where land is cheap and I was allowed to DIY a shack. Strong property rights and practically unrestricted gun laws here though mean there is at least some protection despite basically no law enforcement.

I understand your reaction a bit better in that case. We probably still won't agree, but I get the frustration of being priced out of better places.

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