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Comment by throwaway4good | Hacker News Reader

Here is an open source implementation that converts from WGS84 to GJC2:

https://github.com/googollee/eviltransform/blob/master/java/...

And converting the other way by a kind of binary search, I guess using a flaw in the obfuscation:

https://github.com/googollee/eviltransform/blob/master/java/...

All seems very silly by today standards and I would think it hardly made sense back in 2002 when this was apparently devised.

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As a means to keep detailed maps out of the hands of an enemy it's indeed not great. As it's all rather obvious to reverse engineer this and people have indeed done so.

But as a means to force foreign companies to use Chinese data suppliers this works perfectly. Because using this software would be illegal in China and anyone looking to business there legally would end up having to use Chinese data centers, Chinese data suppliers, Chinese infrastructure, etc.

Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit.

This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es.

Maybe not planned as a barrier, but effectively being one now? So this could be a reason why not to revert it.

Once you make something a standard it is hard to get rid of it even if there is an obvious better approach.

Mapping is explicitly regulated so no need for an indirect barrier.

AFAIK it is the same other places. If a Chinese company wanted to do an extensive commercial map of the US it would face all sorts of regulative hurdles.

> Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit.

One-way knowledge flows is an ubiquitous and consistent facet of china's commercial policies.

> Promote the development of surveying and mapping in the service of national economic construction.

It was very transparently an economic and technical development policy from the start, it was never intended as a military policy to hinder enemy mapping ability.

They do similar information control across many other industries besides maps. The CCP is very good at gatekeeping access to foreign/uncensored information through a few state-owned enterprises, then metering it out as they see fit for economic progress.

China has been for some time a mercantile state that believed trade surplus and subsidising local production would create geopolitical strategic outcomes in its favour.

It's a bit less like that now as Xi drifts into a more personal dictatorship.

No need to speculate. The reasons for it were stated explicitly, as the article mentions. They are, briefly, to “promote mapping” for “national economic construction”, “national defense”, and “social development”.

To be fair, they say that about literally every initiative they undertake.

> Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit.

> This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es.

Even if it started like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they now appreciate the unintended consequence of it serving as a "elaborate technical trade barrier."

Pretty nuts. The entire chinese population lives in a state of perpetual formation and "harmony" with the crony capitalist thugs that operate from behind the curtain. And this is just another case of crony capitalist bullshit. It's not at all about "protecting maps from the enemy". It's about controlling and delving out access to a good-ole boy network (party members and their cronies)...The US and Europe are heading down the same paths but they'll never get to the level of maniac cult-like manipulation that China has achieved over a billion people.

I mean those cronies kinda made it rain money over that billion people. They transitioned the nation from an agrarian society to a major geopolitical economic player, and they've averaged double-digit annual GDP growth for over 3 decades, which is unprecedented in all of human history.

The real question is what happens when they inevitably have a major economic downturn. Will the cronies lose power? Will they cling to power using violence against the opposition? Will they start a war to distract and rally their population?

Lmao no. Only a small fraction ever see that wealth, the same fraction who are selling the cheap labour of the factory worker underclass: https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/17/why-more-workers-in-c...

No money raining down on the poor workers who gotta buy their own safety equipment or just deal without having any. Your job is to drip your hands in mercury every day don't like it then there are a thousand waiting to step in to replace you.

Lmao no. It's a large majority that have seen the wealth.

Why do you think companies are leaving China? It's because the workers are now demanding more money because everyone is richer.

Maybe GJC2 can be modified on the fly, by changing offset parameters? So in a hypothetical war situation, only providers obtaining data in realtime from "authorized" sources would have access to accurate targeting information.

Not unless you want to change all the map data.

Nah, because the thing is the Russian and US militaries will have their own maps of China anyway. There's a reason the UK's mapping agency retains the historic name of the Ordinance Survey, maps has always been a military thing and they've always retained surveyors.

This reminds me of a fascinating book titled "The Red Atlas" by John Davies and Alexander Kent which is about the very detailed maps of Western cities the Soviet Union created during the Cold War.

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