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Comment by tptacek | Hacker News Reader

Gazans are victimized by Hamas, and then victimized again by Israel. Israel deliberately helped arrange for Hamas, an organization that held onto control of Gaza by force not persuasion, to be the most important actor in supply chains into Gaza and the sole political outlet for Gazan self-determination, then stood back and watched after 2017 as it transformed into an explicit death cult. It galls to see people attempt to tag Palestinians with responsibility for that. I'll be the first to say that the situation in Israel/Palestine is too complicated to summarize neatly, but whatever the hierarchy of culpability is, ordinary Gazans must be at the very bottom of it.

If we agree about that, do you feel like the comment you wrote reflects that sensibility? Like a reasonable person reading it would get that vibe? It wasn't the vibe I got, but this is a message board, so I want to be careful not to let my expectations get out of hand.

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I agree they are victimized by Hamas. That's fair. I think putting the blame on Israel is a trickier point. What exactly did you want Israel to do? Re-occupy Gaza after Hamas took over? Not let any money into Gaza? I don't see any good options here. As I said it's fair to say there was an element of complicity from Israel but I wouldn't call Israel a Hamas supporter by any stretch of that word. We also need to consider the conduct of the Palestinian Authority throughout this period.

If you say that Israel handing over Gaza to the PA and withdrawal from the Gaza strip ended up being a big mistake I can agree with that in retrospect. At the time I personally thought there's a chance for peace. But that sort of brings us way back to the question of how is this conflict going to be resolved when all paths lead to bad outcomes.

Hamas was a death cult way before 2017.

The relationship between Palestinians in Gaza and Hamas is also more complicated then "victimized". I mean you're right but there are nuances there.

Hamas isn't oppressing people in the west bank. What explains the polls showing strong support for Hamas there?

EDIT: another random btw, I think your comments regarding the conflict are generally well informed and with good intentions. I appreciate that. It's sorely missing from online conduct on this topic.

There's no run of Hamas that I have a high opinion of, but after Sinwar seized control, the political leadership fled and started leaking to the global media that he was insane and truly believed Hamas was about to ignite the final battle between good and evil. Then, on October 7, he took his best shot doing at exactly that. They were right! He was legitimately crazy! And Netanyahu both supported them through it, and ignored warnings from his own intelligence sources.

If there's a thru-line to my comments on this issue on HN, it's this: (1) we're never going to resolve it on HN, and (2) Israelis aren't Europeans and Gazans aren't Hamas. Here, I'm just being consistent.

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