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Comment by Ajay-p | Hacker News Reader

I think we have a duty to care for our parents the way they cared for us, but not to be their servant. I take my mother to all of her doctors appointments, get her groceries, and help around her house. I would do more if only she would let me.

She cared for her mother, but it was a bit of a strain as her mother succumbed to dementia. She cared for my father as he withered away from cancer, until she could no longer physically do it. Then he was admitted to the hospital and then hospice. She was very sad that she was not able to live up to what she saw was her duty, to care for him.

I feel it is my duty to care for my parents, but there is a line for everyone that is reality. There are many factors such as a person's behavior, now or in the past, and the relationship that may not be there. My parents have treated me very well, so it is the least I can do to return this to them. I think we should strive towards that if we can.

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>I feel it is my duty to care for my parents

As a parent and a child who saw my parents waste all of their youth being a cook/nurse/maid for my paternal grandparents that lived way too long, I feel it is my duty to end myself (I’m sure this is easier said than done), or at least free my kids of the expectation that they need to care for me, so that they can prioritize their life for themselves and their kids’ futures.

Transport to a few doctor appointments and helping out a few hours per week is no big deal, but I don’t want to see my kids organizing their life around supporting me.

This so much. I will never ever want to ruin my kid's life with such an expectation, I moved permanently to society where basic dignity is cca guaranteed if possible, and if it cannot be provided, so be it, death of me is fine and just a question of time. I wish to still being able to end it myself, on my terms, somewhere not bothering anybody, causing as little problems as possible (and settle will well ahead of it).

My useless last years are worthless compared to (remaining) prime age of the most important people in my lives - my children. What kind of piece of shit I would be to expect them to waste it on me.

Now is the time to live your life to see it as well spend, whatever it means to you. Then you can be dying in peace. You really can live off good stuff in life for a long time, and raising kids well is the ultimate achievement for me.

There is one issue with all this - I can't take such care for my own parents due to big distance. I can though easily pay for full support in any way they will ever require, which is still massively better objectively than me risking getting fired constantly and juggling their needs with my & my family. So the transition generation and those just before doesn't have it easiest, but I honestly believe this is the right, non-selfish way.

And if I succumb to dementia (which is never sudden), I will specifically beg all around me repeatedly that I want as little time & energy from them as possible, just a bit to cover their own emotional needs and happiness. Anything above is just a gift that shouldn't be too common.

> death of me is fine and just a question of time. I wish to still being able to end it myself, on my terms, somewhere not bothering anybody, causing as little problems as possible

I've heard this sentiment over and over again, from older people around me growing up, and then from my peers as I've aged. I think most of them were perfectly sincere when they said it, some said it regularly for years.

In the end though, zero of these people chose suicide in the end. Despite many of them ultimately having severe chronic illnesses and disability. I'm not saying you're wrong to say this, or even to believe it about yourself. But something I've noticed in working with disability work is that disabled people still generally find life worth living, still find the cost worth it. You want to end it "when the time comes" but probably the time will never come.

Did they have foolproof, painless assisted suicide as an option? As far as I know, that is not really available anywhere except for when the doctors prescribe extra morphine once someone is in their final days and is unable to administer it to themselves and “warns” their family what would happen if too much morphine is given.

Well you are right about foolproof part. But then it is just saying for effect that I'd rather be dead than imposing on my kids

Just be sure you've talked to your kids beforehand, because they may not feel the same way and may feel betrayed.

Oregon, Canada, Netherlands all have it.

Also could jump off a building.

Oregon is a lethal prescription situation, you still have to have enough physical function to do it.

And jumping off a building requires being able to access the exterior of a building tall enough for the purpose. Such access is common to residents (balconies), but typically not to visitors. And it requires being able to climb over whatever safety barriers exist. I am aware of *one* spot--and if things were bad enough I doubt I could either reach it or get over the barrier. Without a conveniently-placed vehicle (it's a parking garage) I doubt my wife could get over the barrier even in good health.

Jumping off a building is not foolproof, and leaves quite a mess for others’ to clean up.

The desire is to be able to choose to die peacefully, with as minimal (negative) impact on others as possible.

Another easy one is falling off the boat while fishing, but again, you might leave a body or body part floating around for someone to find. And the boat is left unattended.

I mean, social stigma makes some acts very difficult or very easy. When I was young there was no social stigma against drinking and driving, huge numbers of people did it (and died from it). Now we're in an age where drinking and driving is stigmatized and far less people do it, and you're apt to be called out for it.

The reason I'm bringing up this analogy is suicide has been heavily stigmatized in most cultures so even if people wanted to do it the "but what will people think" factor is powerful, even for those that wouldn't be around for what those people think.

Maybe because suicide has a terrible impact on the surviving family? It is a really shitty situation to be in.

heh, so is wiping your parents asses.

The time came for me to serve my grandfather in that way (for short moments, the interstitial generation took on most of the effort). The small effort on my part overcame large difficulties for him and I was grateful to serve the person among those who gave me myself.

Usually when you get to the point of needing to have your ass wiped you are no longer in a position to decide that stuff.

The dementia patient is very poorly equipped to evaluate the evolution of the disease. Most of time he thinks he is ok, when he is clearly no longer ok.

In reality there's a big difference between saying "I want to die in some unforeseeable future" and "I want to die tomorrow"

If you can still see your family, if you can still enjoy an afternoon sitting in the sunshine, if you really want watch the next episode of Shogun, you aren't going to be willing to give up that last bit of existence. Not yet.

It's not that they don't choose suicide, it's that by the time your quality of life is gone you very often can't choose suicide or are faced with doing so by the one act they can still do--refuse food/water.

Look at the countries that permit euthanasia. Inability no longer is relevant and there are parts of the Netherlands where it's 10% of the population that take that route--and note that this is a substantial undercount because by no means everyone is in a position to make the choice. (Sudden events, those whose mind is going.)

Secretly, that's what I think too. The biggest problem is the estigma associated with Euthanasia and the potential mental issues related to guilty it could induce in my kids, should I ever need to consider it before becoming a burden to them.

I had to care for my mother for a long part of my adult life, and while I loved her, I must admit that I frequently resented the feeling of having my youth years being stolen. For a few years I even left my family because I didn't want to make my wife and kids share this burden at the worst phase.

I like to imagine following the kids around like a friendly barnacle. Dragging young adults away from their prospects seems avoidable that way, let them drive and follow along.

I feel the same way about my parents, but many people don't have such a good relationship with their own parents. If you (ubiquitous) want your children to take care of you in old age, then you'd better not treat them like crap. I can't say I would blame my best friend if he left his dad to die alone in some hospice or for another friend's mother to fend for herself in some way. Some parents are truly unpleasant or full-blown despicable, and I'm glad there's no cultural duty in America to take care of them despite this.

Those were extreme examples, though. For a lot of people, taking care of their parents is signing up for a never ending stream of criticism. I don't know of many individuals past the age of maybe 40 who have negative personality traits and come to the conclusion that "maybe the problem is with me." I can only think of one in my life. Just about as bad is when one's parents are conservative and cannot get with the times, or they pretend to be with the times only for you to discover that they actually aren't when the rubber meets the road. I don't believe in abandoning one's parents if they have more "benign" personality traits, but the financially intelligent decision of "you can live with us" probably isn't a sound one from an interpersonal level, and hopefully healthy distance can still be had.

Oh, but if parents make no effort to survive retirement, forced or otherwise, then I don't think anyone should be obligated to help them. People have varying amounts of luck, but if one doesn't save anything then they've chosen to be screwed.

Personally, if I end up with one option being my children sacrificing their financial independence and youth, and the other signing up for the Smith & Wesson retirement plan, I'll take the latter.

> Personally, if I end up with one option being my children sacrificing their financial independence and youth, and the other signing up for the Smith & Wesson retirement plan, I'll take the latter.

As a serious note from observations, if you do this, make it look like a goddamn accident doing something you enjoyed or your kids will be fucked in the head for decades to come.

Take up mountain climbing or skydiving and have a fatal accident instead of suck-starting a shotgun. Trust me.

This doesn't really work for, lack of a better term, 'at scale'.

My parents for example live far away from my career and career options. I can't afford to move them to live with me. Full remote work helps, but companies want to drag workers back into the office at the cost of their family. If my parents got sick or had issues in order to help them I would need to abandon my job, drain my savings and become a full time caregiver.

Business culture, career advancement, the way jobs are structured are all at odds with taking care of elderly family members. The only people that can afford to do so are those already well off.

Yup, my wife (China born, now naturalized US) felt it was her duty to care for her parents--but that stopped when she felt she was being exploited.

what do you mean by exploited

Being asked to fund more than she agreed to and some financial shenanigans.

If I treated my parents the way they treated me, I'd be in jail. I chose instead to fire them.

Completely agree. We didn't agree to the bargain when we were born.

That'd be like adopting a adopting a puppy and expecting it to take care of you later because you cared for it and fed it for a few years.

That said, I'll do anything for my father and step mother, they've always treated me with love and compassion.

But my birth mother? She couldn't get the time of day from me. She donated an egg and a laundry list of ACEs, and still refuses to call my husband anything than "your.... Friend" even though we've been married ten years

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