Couch hacking - A proof of Ikea's excellence | Hacker News Reader

Couch hacking - A proof of Ikea's excellence

lengrand.fr

87 pointsjlengrand72 comments

Even though Ikea furniture is essentially disposable, it looks relatively attractive, can easily last for a few years (I have 2 desks going on 11 years with only minor laminate peeling), but one thing that makes buying their stuff a joy is the instructions.

I know that Ikea's instruction style has been intensely influential in the home furniture business when I go buy a set of curtain rods at a different store, or an "assembly required" vacuum cleaner at a garage supply store and they all feature copies of what look like Ikea instructions. Simple line-art, no words (saving having to print assembly instructions in 11 languages) etc.

And then when I set out to actually follow the instructions is the brilliance of Ikea's instruction design made clear. Curtain rod instructions? I have almost no idea what they are trying to convey to me, random screws and indecipherable brackets make putting them up a chore. Vacuum wasn't much better, I'm still not sure I have the right hose in the right place.

But put together an 1100 piece Ikea drawer unit? It's as much fun, and as simple, as building a Lego Millennium Falcon -- and they've managed to describe the process unambiguously, and in only as many steps as necessary (around 30). Each little connector is absolutely clear, the shape and sides of similar looking pieces are obvious, multiple steps (when absolutely clear), are combined into one.

The instruction manuals are virtually parts of a piece of audience participation performance art.

You can also tell that they've pretested them. They'll include the "X" over common errors, like choosing the wrong length screw, instead of just putting the picture of the right thing.

Cookbooks get dinged for this all the time... recipes are often not pre-tested before placement in many cookbooks, such that some now feature on the cover "Every recipe tested in our kitchens". It becomes apparent when cookbooks list common errors (yes, even expert chefs make common errors) or ways to fix bad outcomes or ingredient substitutions which actually still taste good.

It all looks so simple, til you get the curtain rod instructions (agreed!) or a non-tested cookbook.

The way to way to think about IKEA lifespan is not years. Each move and reassemble ages a piece, as does exceeding its load-bearing capacity. If you don't move it and don't overload it (especially those flimsy backs of bookcases held in by tiny nails), a piece will last many years.

Related: http://imgur.com/7ZuMG

This couch doesn't have drop shadows and an unnecessary 'loading' animation, metaphorically speaking. This article is a great description of the product of what good designers do. It's cheap to manufacture. Easily deployed and assembled. Well suited to its primary purpose. Incorporates multiple additional uses without compromising the primary use. Flexible enough to be reconfigured easily for different locations. Best of all, it doesn't have any unnecessary 'design' frills.

I wouldn't have summarized better. That is exactly what I tried to show in the article.

Their designs may be innovative but the material quality is often so low you should consider it as disposable. Especially all the 'fake wood' stuff. The inside is made of the lightest stuff and it breaks at the first occasion. Ok, its cheap, but it feels cheap as well. Most of their office chairs are crap and do no last. As for the couch in question, it is probably ok for that purpose. There are however a bunch of items for which i wont consider ikea as an option anymore.

Personally I think IKEA's partly bad reputation is 100% based on their cheapest furniture in their collection. They do have a lot of more expensive furniture also which has a lot higher material quality. In other words, you get what you pay for and that rule also covers IKEA.

I agree and disagree with you at the same time.

Some items are indeed crap, and I won't buy them (especially in their first version). But some others, including office chairs suit me well. I bought 3 of them at least, and never experienced any problem.

The lack table will surely break soon, but what do you exactly expect from a 10 bucks table ? :)

I don't know exactly out of France, but the other furniture stores are usually more expensive, and offer crappier stuff than Ikea. (As long as you don't search for a 200 euro table of course).

"But some others, including office chairs suit me well."

Investing in a proper (edit: very good quality) office chair for my development rig was certainly one of the best investments I made. I don't know if you've seen it, but if not I suggest to take a look at http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/07/investing-in-a-qual...

Already read this article. But I have a weird way of working . I sit on my chair like a yoggi ^^. Sounds weird but work for me :)

http://goo.gl/VB6Ys

but don't you still need good lower back support? If you don't mind sharing, what chair are you using? I'm genuinely interested.

Sure.

I used to have this one (the older version, with better back support) http://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/products/00146677/

But with my new flat, I still dont have much furniture and use this (shame on me I know :)). http://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/products/50221711/

I might search for a really nice chair in several months though. I would probably go for something like this : http://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/catalog/products/S19896843/.

In my opinion, best back support is simply not to stay hours without getting up on the same chair. The yoga position keeps your (or at least mine) back automatically in a correct position.

Yes. My $300 dollar chair is horrible for how I sit. But how do you align good desk/monitor height with your elevated knees? I need a desk that has minimal surface area in front and center, so my knees have room to pop up.

Ikea really has come up with a great way to attract and retain customers. --When you're in college and/or in your first apartment, you often can't afford great furniture, so you buy the cheap Ikea stuff that works, but isn't designed to last. A couple of years later, however, you have a bit more money and want to upgrade (or replace the broken furniture), and Ikea has higher quality options available that still don't break the bank, but look nicer and will last much longer.

My main issue with upgrading out of Ikea is that I have no idea where to go. Last time I walked into a "real" furniture store, I got a very sleazy feeling from all the salesmen in suits standing by the door ready to pounce.

I don't think I've ever seen (or at least noticed) any of Ikea's higher quality options. The price differences just seem like normal price variation between models to me. Is there any way to tell that a particular item is from their better line?

That said, I think I paid something like $150 for my Jerker desk and it's still going strong seven years and five moves later.

The price difference is the biggest differentiator, that and finding the stuff that looks more sturdy. If it looks like real wood and weighs like real wood, it most likely is real wood.

I just got back from a trip to Ikea to buy multiple computer desks, and got the really cheap particle board ones to save money, but there were definitely some nicer desks there that looked even better that felt like real wood.

> Their designs may be innovative but the material quality is often so low you should consider it as disposable.

It really depends on what you get, the fake wood tables definitely don't last (though they're no worse than most "fake wood" alternatives using woodchips, you won't get those to last either).

And I recently got a bunch of expedit units[0], it's fakewood but it feels extremely sturdy, especially the "sides" (heavy as fuck too). I don't know how well they survive moving, but the part was cheap and doesn't feel cheap.

Really, they've got pretty much all the range, you can find cheap stuff that won't last and more expensive stuff which will. And their integration and parts are really clever (for expedit parts for instance, there are something like a dozen "basket"-type things which fit perfectly in the slots but can also be used as independent baskets with no issue, from the $5 "drona" which is just some tissue over cardboard — sufficient for laundry — to the $15+ pjas or knipsa woven baskets with metal structure which feel extremely solid)

> Most of their office chairs are crap and do no last.

Then again I can say that for all office chairs I've seen under $150. Love having screws digging in my ass after 2 weeks due to the shitty foam seat.

[0] http://www.ikea.com/us/search/?query=expedit

I have moved twice with my expedit, without never breaking anything. This is amazing how strong the stuff can be. Same for the lack tables, never broke any, even while seating on them totally drunk ^^ .

Ikea uses the same materials as the other manufacturers when talking about cheap furniture, it just uses it better :).

I moves with expedit up to three times. I only disposed (sold) it, because it did not fit anymore with my colorchoices.

So I was able to sell a expedit after three moves.

The kitchen in our home is a pure IKEA Showroom. Even the 40mm realwood top. that did cost about 300 $. We would have paid 2000 - 2500 $, if we would have ordered that one at a kitchen store. The whole kitchen didn't cost that much. You can buy cheap at IKEA. But you can also buy good stuff there. It costs a little bit more, but most times it really lasts.

and: We had a problem once with missing parts. What do I say. A Problem? NO, went ti IKEA, told the service desk, what the issue was, left 5 minutes later with all parts and to vouchers for free coffee.

> I don't know how well they survive moving

Well, let me tell you my experience! When we moved I took apart our 5x5 Expedit shelving unit. When I had to put it back together, the heavy top shelf turned out to be bent upwards in the middle. It was only a few centimeters. I decided to unbend it with my foot, and through the resulting hole I found out that the Expedit are actually cardboard inside :)

Still, it's perfectly fine (there's books on top of the hole anyway), and straight again.

I picked the wrong colour on my 5x5 expedit for one of the 30 kilo boxes, and spent this Saturday carting it 2 u-bahn's and a bus back and forth on my shoulder to change it. I hurt. But it looks very nice beside the desk.

We had two Expedit 6x6ft units in our old house and left them when we moved. Our excuse was that they were bolted to the wall (toddler friendly) and "fixtures". We tried to move something similar previously and it was never the same afterward. In our new home (bigger) we bought 7 Expedit units of different sizes and are essentially treating them as disposable here, too. That said, I don't really see much purpose in spending lots of money on solid wood bookshelves that aren't built-ins.

Most commodity furniture is like this, if you ever look inside a modern couch you'll be amazed how cheap and poor quality the innards are - I mean plastic instead of metal, and low grade wood that's holding the weight and under tension. I guess it's like most things in modern life, if you don't pay over the odds for quality, then it's all superficial.

I woldn't buy a desk, chair or couch from Ikea cheapest options, but I have some bookcases, shelves and so on. I like them because they're hackable[0] and price is also a factor. I have great desk and couch but my other furniture in "office" changes all the time - I buy some Lack, Expedit and Capita and build stuff. Angled shelves, messed bookcase, stands from drawers ...

[0] - http://www.ikeahackers.net/

My entire place is like an Ikea showroom. My only complaints are that the surfaces are not hard wearing,even on expensive items. I've taken to covering work surfaces with another layer of laminate or in the case of my desk, I had a custom cutting mat cut for it which is glued on with impact adhesive.

I've already had to replace the desktop of an otherwise fine Ikea desk. Wear-and-tear over some two years had removed the paint on a palm-sized oval area where my mouse hand sat. Some unfortunate punches in less glorious moments cracked through (it's not solid wood, but basically a thin walled box with a cardboard hex structure inside).

The good part is that the desktop costs a lot less than the whole desk, it's always in stock and it takes 5 minutes with a screwdriver to change.

The thin-box design is smart, it makes it very light, and the cardboard hex structure deadens resonance, so it doesn't sound like a "cheap" box, even if it is one. A lot like how car doors have sound deadening to give them a solid, satisfying thump, instead of a cheap, high frequency ring when you close them.

I never knew you could get individual parts.

I found that the desk I have has some resonance with a Sony all in desktop pc I had. Was solved by putting a couple of glue gun glue blobs on the bottom of the unit.

Was slightly annoying.

Another IKEA solution. Buy a piece of the kitchen counter top rather than a desktop - 3x as heavy and waterproof (check the damagedbin to get one for $10). Then add the legs from the do it yourself table range and add an extra one in the middle at the back.

Then you can have a 3m long desk for $50 that will hold an array of large CRTs

Great idea! Must try that!

I wish I was aware you could replace individual parts. I had an Ikea desk with a top like you mentioned. It started to bend alarmingly in the middle. Forked out for a whole new desk to replace it. Would have definitely been cheaper to just switch out the surface.

Some of the ikea tables and work desks have a glass top. Have you tried those ?

I have children. I avoid glass where possible.

Glass is a bad material for that kind of application; being brittle, it's weak and unreliable under tension, and the failure mode is shattering without warning.

Manstad is awesome, got one 10 years ago and it is still in use every day.

Another IKEA-item I'm really impressed by is the simple NJUTA shampoo containers: http://www.ikea.com/dk/da/catalog/products/70192699/ - what impresses me is how they have shaped the container such that it can be stored in different ways depending on your bathroom: standing on the lid, hanging from a hook or squeezed in between the wall and the water pipe.

Now I'm buying shampoo based on the shape of the container.

IKEA sits at that price point where it's expensive enough to not seem cheap, and cheap enough to be affordable.

Plus half the furniture into something else hacks seem to be from IKEA, so maybe they just design it with the idea in mind that it'll end up as part of a rackmount setup or something.

IKEA makes simple pieces designed for reuse across their whole inventory, so it is natural that their components extend to third party aftermarket designs.

Ikea are absolutely brilliant. Some may have issues with their style or perceived quality however for price and flexibility they dominate.

Other companies are trying to mimic the flat pack business model. However the overall shopping environment, forcible furniture, warranties make them standout.

The sofa is just one example of adaptable furniture. One limitation though is their bed and mattress products. They have different dimensions (unique to ikea) and therefore you need an ikea mattress for a perfect fit.

One limitation though is their bed and mattress products. They have different dimensions (unique to ikea)

Are you in a country that uses imperial measures? I have an IKEA Mattress, in a non-IKEA Habitat bedframe, that uses the same non-standard (in the UK) sizes. I assumed it was just a metric standard from continental Europe.

Nah, I'm in Germany and the duvets and beds are very awkwardly proportioned. It means you have to choose IKEA sheets to get them to fit just right.

I have never purchased Ikea furniture. I've only had the pleasure of putting it together for other people. So far that experience has included wardrobes, desks and beds. Without fail the stuff is absolute crap.

From pressboard panels, where the slightest overtweak of connectors causes permanent damage, to undersized drawers that fall off of slides, to the inevitable missing parts, the stuff is garbage. It looks nice in the showroom maze and it's inexpensive but you definitely get what you pay for. Maybe even less than that.

And yes its disposable. It cannot take the abuse of moving from one apartment to another.

Our bedroom is largely from Ikea, except for one bookshelf and one dresser. We have run into precisely zero of these issues. The only significant damage incurred was when we slammed a car trunk onto the bottom of a table, puncturing it underneath. So far, the desk and shelves have survived moves without any problem.

Ikea has a pretty big range of furniture, and some of it is made out of actual wood; maybe that makes the difference.

A lot of IKEA stuff is at a really nice price point, but I tend to avoid buying anything from them that involves wood. The particle-board composites they use are so heavy that their furniture becomes impractical to actually move around (and for someone who moves frequently, this is a major drawback). For bookcases and dressers, I usually try to find something made out of pine (or some light hardwood). You can get them from unfinished furniture outlets for a very decent price, and they look quite attractive, even if you don't finish them.

I remember looking at Ikea when buying a sofa-bed earlier this year. I dismissed it as too expensive. This MANSTAD looks great so I decide to have a look.

$699. Not too bad. Much cheaper than I remember Ikea. Now to look for the Australian Price. Can't be too much more than that. $1299. And that's why I bought a 2nd hand leather couch off gumtree for $200.

I have had the similar experience. Living in Melbourne, IKEA was considered as almost exclusive, being Swedish and with a pricing slight higher than Freedom or Plush. Now that I am living in Germany, IKEA is considered almost poverty pack furniture!

Personally, I really like their design - clean, functional and to the point.

And I must say that I was surprised at the US price tags when writing the article. I always assumed IKEA's prices were kinda standardized.

Experience showed that they absolutely don't. The Manstad is 100$ cheaper in France than it is in the US.

It's changed a little. When I first lived in the US in the 90s, IKEA was almost exclusively a grad student level store. Now it seems to be upmarket here.

Remember as well that the French price presumably includes 20% vat while the US price will be +sales tax.

I was actually including the tax :)

So the $AUD price is €1021 including the 10% GST. The Ikea/fr website lists €499

> It was by far the item I loved most in my flat (even before my computer).

I left a marriage and a fully furnished house behind me, but my old couch is one of the things I regret the most, it was just perfect :) That, and the dish-washer, someone should write a poem or build a statue for the person who invented/perfected this wonderful piece of machinery.

The best thing about dish-washers is that they use less energy and water than most humans cleaning the same amount of dishes. At least if you get a modern one.

They definitely are an innovation company.

One of Ikea's greatest innovations (and also the one they keep quiet about) is that it's actually a non-profit organisation. In 2009 Ikea Group made a €2.5 billion profit, none of which was taxed.

Depending on your viewpoint, it's either insanely brilliant or morally bankrupt: the vast majority of Ikea's revenue goes to the INGKA Foundation, a charity which ostensible supports 'innovation in the field of architecture', but only gives 0.2% of its total equity to charitable causes each year.

It makes the fairly standard tax avoidance measures carried out by tech companies like Apple or Vodafone look amateur by comparison!

It's slightly disingenuous to say "none of which was taxed" when each store and regional organization does pay taxes in the country they're located. The part that's not taxed are the royalty fees paid from each store (franchise system) to the parent corporation (which of course is still a massive amount).

There's also income tax paid by Ikea employees, which I guess is why the Swedish government has let Ikea get away with the rest of it.

Ikea isn't a swedish company it's dutch.

ps this is exactly the same sort of scam (double Irish rather than dutch sandwich) used by Google/HP/MSFT/Dell and every other company operating in Europe

No, it's not 'exactly the same sort of scam' - unless you're trying to tell me that Google, HP, and Microsoft all divert the bulk of their profits through non-profit charities to avoid tax. They divert their profits through holding companies, but these are for profit. Ikea don't do that.

Setting up holding companies in EU to pay minimal tax is standard practice: creating a 'charitable organisation' absolutely isn't. Ikea is a very unique, and in some ways innovative, example of creative accounting.

Yes IKEA is a bit special - at least among companies that don't actually use sawn-off shotguns as part of the sales process!

Occams razor tells me that if IKEA's system saved any more money than Google's etc, Google etc would switch systems.

Employment and income taxes are paid in the country of employment (all Ikea designers etc are based in Sweden)

For anyone interested in more information, the Wikipedia article section on IKEA's corporate structure seems to be a good start. There's also a subsection about the "public" outcry over the change from Futuru to Verdana. :)

According to Wikipedia, the royalties -- 3% of the revenue or about €630M -- are taxed, but the company receiving the royalties claims €590M in operating expenses paid out to another company (owned by the same people). Together, those two companies pay about €19M in taxes.

Apart from the royalties, lots of money goes into that infamous "non-profit", I'll quote from the Wikipedia page: The net profit of IKEA Group (which does not include Inter IKEA systems) in fiscal year 2009 (after paying franchise fees to Inter IKEA systems) was €2.538 billion on sales of €21.846 billion. Because INGKA Holding is owned by the nonprofit INGKA Foundation, none of this profit is taxed. The foundation's nonprofit status also means that the Kamprad family cannot reap these profits directly, but the Kamprads do collect a portion of IKEA sales profits through the franchising relationship between INGKA Holding and Inter IKEA Systems.

Regarding the non-profit: estimated net worth of $36B, most of the Group's profit is spent on investments, the foundation expects to spend €45 million on charitable giving in 2010 (the slightly smaller Gates foundation spent $1.5B in 2005).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Corporate_structure

Some countries allow this culturally so they can bring and keep jobs at home.

I had that couch and notice a glaring omission: it's VERY uncomfortable. Hard as concrete slabs. That's it's primary function and it fails. Also when trying to move it around my apartment the particle wood/cardboard sides started tearing within it. Are they innovative? Yes. Excellent? No.

Exactly. We have the same couch as well (in a small guest room)and it's fantastic in theory (lots of internal storage space, incredibly easy to convert between bed & couch) but in practice it makes for an uncomfortable bed as well as an uncomfortable couch. As you said, the Ikea particle board is also quite fragile.

We ended up purchasing a down mattress pad (for ~15% of the price of the couch) for when it is used as a bed and it makes it bearable as a bed, but now we have to store the mattress pad in the couch itself.

After living with the couch for a year I would happily pay twice as much for a similar design that is executed better. Unfortunately no such thing exists as far as I can tell!

The best part about Ikea is the experience when you return something. No fuss, and it's no biggie if you lost the receipt or come after the return period has ended. Awesome customer treatment.

I may have had bad luck, but the last time I shopped there, the customer experience was horrible. I had a new tenant coming in, so perhaps I was buying more than a usual purchase, but an app that let me know where to pick up all the parts for items (for some I would have to go to different parts of the warehouse) and let me check them off as I got them (perhaps using the phone as a scanner) would have been very useful...

I still prefer MUJI. It's too bad they don't really have many locations in North America outside of New York City.

It is fun to shop around in IKEA and we do frequent visits there but often the quality is too low.

On the other hand, IKEA operates under the ownership of non-profit establishment using sleazy tricks to avoid taxes.

IKEA ftw, came for the furniture, stayed for the meatballs.

I have that couch. It's so good my friend also got it.

That's the couch we got when I moved out here to work at Greplin. Brilliant design.

When they learn how to cut bed slats to the width required for the bed, so that they don't fall through when you sit on them, I will be a lot more impressed.

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