Comparing the Framework Laptop with the MacBook Air M2: A Detailed Review
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With that said, if a company offered me the choice between a PC or a Mac, I’d pick the Mac every time. It’s different when someone else is paying ;).
But Apple’s BTO prices are, as everyone knows, totally insane. Combined with pathetic base amounts it really burns people. I know a lot of Mac fans who keep putting off upgrades because it costs so much to get a decent config.
AppleCare is more worth it on a loaded out newer laptop imo. If you have a $3k laptop you are committed to getting it fixed for a while. It maths out that if you break a screen you’re break even. Whatever. I’ll probably lose the bet but things like tile and stone will fuck up a screen if it gets any velocity at all, hard surface impacts suck. I bought a nice laptop because I want to carry it around outside etc and still be able to do whatever I want off the plug. And M1 Max is perfectly fine at that, really the popularity of the M1 has massively eroded most of the M2 and M3’s thunder. “More perf more power” was only a narrative that mattered (throttle to whatever you want, and efficiency goes up anyway) because the price gradient from M1 has always been insurmountable.
(original German, machine auto translation English at the top with the flag) https://www.notebookcheck.com/Qualcomm-Snapdragon-X-Elite-in...
M4 Max is the first time I’m interested, primarily because of SVE and true neural accelerator APIs not through metal. And a lot of cumulative gains too, of course. AV1 encode and decode, way better perf and much better graphics, etc. I’ll definitely wait at least another gen most likely (get M4 Max on firesale?) but there really is starting to be a more substantial difference than people realize.
Honestly the air 15” is also a very compelling form factor if they give you a second pixel pipe in the m4 (does it? I thought I read it did). Especially if they get it to 32gb on the top sku… fine. Even 24gb is fine for what it is and those M2 Air 15” 24GB/1TB SKUs are down to $1700 or something in the refurb store. 14/16" MBP 32GB/1TB M1 Max are also perpetually cheap, I've seen them down below $1400 iirc. Standard/popular work laptop.
It’s been nice having the M1 Max and doing inference on the gpu, dolphin-mixtral etc are super useful and actually helpful in on tons of first-pass summarization of a niche etc. I would like more, I hope AMD lets the gpu allocate unlimited memory on Strix halo. Half the time it's plugged in as a pseudo workstation, doing some AI shit and tinkering and generally just being a beefcake with crazy memory b/w, triple thunderbolt, etc, half the time it's out on the (stone) patio or a table out in the lawn sipping power, with a nice bright screen (the fingerprints tho...) while the dogs play (and one of them is on a tieout, so he knocks things over, etc). And whether or not it's a gimmick ($350 for the 3-years and I break even if I have a screen break? i'm ok with this) it's given me peace of mind to just carry it around and use it.
I've totally been able to spend way more time out with the dogs with a nice laptop again. It's been a huge QOL change to get a portable workstation slash do it all thin-n-light with great build quality, a well-supported unix ecosystem and pytorch ecosystem, a performant GPU with a good library and broad application support, super great efficiency, high-end AI/ML model capability, a nice screen, a reasonable keyboard, tons of thunderbolt... the MBA was nice but something bigger is nice outside, and it sold me on the expensive loaded out laptop actually because it was such a good user experience just as a unix user. I've used linux plenty, I've used windows (mostly for gaming now), I've used freebsd, part of the ick people feel is just because they aren't used to bsdutils. Yes, they're archaic and different etc. They're also a cohesive ecosystem of their own, this largely isn't an apple thing. And apple is actually ironically really good about letting you have command-line utils to set file associations, bless apps (ie grant security console privilege toggles), etc, and applescript/shortcuts is always the weird fallback interface.
(Apple has had a long history of writing all their stuff as Intents, that's a hypercard thing, if not before right? And applescript/shortcuts just lets you push the buttons of the intents just like siri. You can actually make a ton of shortcuts which un-annoyify ios, in particular. "Airdrop on" right there on my home screen. Living in the 21st century.)
I reckon there’s apple tax, but I also think it’s competitively priced.
Framework 16” is significantly cheaper if you diy.
Edit: Now that I'm at a laptop and not on phone I could check on the warranty situation. The Dell come with 1 year standard warranty (which is better than Apple's 7 complimentary 7 day), but the XPS is 420aud for 3 years, and the Alienware is 735aud for 3 years. HP situation is better with a HP Care Pack with 3 year support/warranty for 190aud or 270aud depending which model you choose.
> a m3 pro 16”/96gb/2tb costs 7700aud
You can't buy an m3 pro with more than 36GB in the UK. A Max with 64GB is £4,699 (8,900 AUD).
A 64GB/2GB Dell Alienware is £2,399 (4,550 AUD).
But in australia the dell alienware is 6000ish aud, and the xps 16 (which is a non starter as it has a touch sensitive esc/function keys and invisible touchpad) is also 6000 aud. I guess we're paying some crazy tax on the alienware. Also the alienware is 18" which depending on what you want is good or bad (personally something I wouldn't want).
Edit: In the usa m3 max 16/96gb/2tb is 4699usd, alienware 16" 64gb/2tb is 2249usd.
The Alienware m16 R2 actually looks cheaper in Aus than UK, you just can't spec it with 64GB/2TB for some unknown reason. If you could for the same percentage bump as the UK, it would be 3577 AUD.
https://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/gaming-and-games/alienware-m...
I think the thing to understand is that the only well priced configurations that Apple offers are the base models.
If you want more ram/storage, it's almost always better to upgrade to the appropriate level CPU that gives you that "for free". The only exception is if you want to run the absolute maximum amount of ram; there's nothing after the Ultra, so you just have to grit your teeth and smile while Apple takes their pound of flesh.
Hopefully Apple's newfound interest in AI will spur them to increase the amount of ram they include across the board.
Mine is significantly better than that, I don't mind saying it doesn't last as long as my (I think M3 Max) MBP, but it's not that bad. I use Arch rather than Ubuntu, and I think have 'tlp' or something installed as generally recommended (for any laptop), but haven't otherwise done anything special. I haven't even updated the firmware/BIOS, which I think is supposed to offer a battery life improvement.
That said, it's worth noting that battery life struggles are common across all Linux laptops, not specific to Framework. I've run Ubuntu on laptops from several brands and they all have weird suspend/resume issues, high battery usage, and so on. (I just installed `tlp` for the first time at the recommendation of another reply to you [0], so we'll see if that makes a difference.)
I'd be curious to hear from someone who runs a Framework with Windows (if such a person exists) to see what the power story is like there.
Before having several loops with customer support, I tried ever forum post, all options, settings, tricks etc. Then I end it in for repair, the final summary: Everything works as expected.
So I returned it. I tried another time with Framework 13 (Intel, 12th gen) and that showed exactly the same behaviour, so I again returned it :(
I want to love Framework, for me I clearly see a huge value in repairability: I'm having a Lenovo Ideapad for 5 years now, there was some dirt under the keys, so I tried (by documentation) to remove the key cap and destroyed it by doing so. Then I wanted to replace the keyboard, and by doing so I destroyed the connector to the keypad. I'm clearly not a hardware guy, but I've been repairing my devices (PC, phone) for decades now, and I never struggled as much as I did with the Ideapad.
I plan to give Framework 13 (Intel, Ultra) another shot, because they finally have the 61Wh battery in the first CPU tier. But I fear it won't make a difference as Framework remains ignorant about their broken power management (horrible battery, fan noise, heating up).
This is a known issue with specifically the first-gen model (i.e. Intel 11th Gen mainboard). The rechargable coin-cell RTC battery is only charged from the USB-C charger, not from the internal LiPo battery. When the coin cell degrades, it cannot hold a charge for long anymore, so you need to connect the notebook to external power to turn it on even if the battery is full.
Framework has acknowledged the issue and provides a replacement part free of charge that you can solder onto the main power rail of the notebook. Since I have no experience with soldering, I had a friend assist me with the soldering part, and now the issue is gone for me.
I can't paste the link right now because my workplace's firewall blocks the frame.work website for whatever reason, but search on the community forum for "RTC Battery Replacement" and it will give you the thread with instructions for how to get the replacement part.
Otherwise: - Keep all expansion cards as USB-C - Do what powertop tells you to do (watchdogs, autosuspend) - Run a lightweight WM/DE (Hyprland without blur and shadows in my case) - Limit electron apps, anything but electron apps. - Use light mode (dark mode, from my experience, causes me to increase the backlight far higher than on light mode, something unfavourable on IPS panels)
I haven’t tried maxing out a game. I’m sure it warms some, but from what I’ve heard it won’t get hot.
I know you can get better performance elsewhere. I don’t care. Having my laptop never get hit is a total game changer. My last 2-3 MBPs (Intel) all got hot and it got worse with each model.
Do something stressful in the slightest? There’s the WOOSH.
I wasn’t expecting to care as much but it’s such a huge QoL thing. I’m not going back to fans. I’m not going back to a hot keyboard. I’m done with it.
If I were to get a Framework (or anything else) the ability to get a cool silent (or very close) configuration would be a huge concern for me.
Do they offer that? Ive never looked. I’ve been hoping the new ARM PCs might be able to match, at least as more appear, but I read the initial ones all have fans.
Outside of the fact I was hoping for comments on that, it was a nice article. It’s not surprising to me that the Air case looks better, unibody construction has a lot of advantages. But it’s expensive to make and repair and would probably make some of the flexibility Framework offers impossible.
I was also pleasantly surprised to read the screen was ~200ppi. I know people’s reasons but having been in the >200 club for many years it annoys me to no end so many Windows laptops still ship with 1080p displays on 13 or 15” models.
My m1 and m2 air when pegged may get lukewarm.
My personal laptop is an M3, my work laptop is a 2019 Intel MBP. So I feel and hear the difference every day in heat/noise alone. I’m looking forward to the next work upgrade cycle, whenever that ends up being.
This is so minor, but clearly MagSafe isn’t about clearing out old inventory because it’s a different connector than old MagSafe.
I do find MagSafe appealing, but not enough, not if it's not what everyone's using. If it were a feature of USB-C it'd be great; as a separate thing, no, I'd rather have a non-magnetic USB-C.
(Haven't used the MagSafe port or cable on mine yet, and don't expect to.)
To be honest the most appealing thing isn't even the accident prevention, it's one of those "slight interaction improvements for something you do hundreds of times over the year" type things in that you bring the cable near and it just clips in, you pull the laptop away or push a little in any direction and it just pops out. Is it a big deal compared to tugging out for a type C cable? No. Is it nice? Yeah.
The big thing is I don't have to have the discipline to always be careful where the charging cable is and adjust my movements to keep it untouched.
Cables are cheap. One less thing to worry about is priceless.
Full disclosure that was pre-USB-C. I haven’t “tested” USB-C in that way.
But it’s a really great feature. And frees up a USB-C port for other use.
It's just never going to be such a great feature for me to bother finding/carrying the different & extra cable, personally.
I've been using USB-C for charging on three different laptops over the past 8 years or so, and I've been perfectly happy with it.
I'm sure some people have damaged laptops with non-MagSafe charging, but I've been more annoyed with MagSafe than I think it's worth.
The cable rubber was always remarkably shit, even with really delicate handling. Lucky now it’s a braided cable, and holding up well so far. Time will tell
Lastly, they thankfully made the cable modular, with a USB connection to the brick. Sometimes I use it with a USB-C to C cable, so I can use it with my phone.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyK6Rjh
I use them in phones, laptops, Flipper Zero, anything which takes USB C.
I'm curious if a $500 mini PC plus a bottomed out mb air would suffice (maybe not! Having all your stuff on your laptop can be useful)
For all that, I haven't considered a Mac mini even though I'm probably an ideal user. It doesn't help that it's on the m2 instead of m3, though. (Or m4, which is in iPads?)
I probably should
I wanted to try a Linux laptop, but in the end I felt having a ton of battery life was ultimately my top priority when away from my desk. I don’t much care for what Apple is doing with MacOS, but their hardware really is great.
I mostly don't even need a powerful desktop (but the cost curve is so attractive vs laptops)
Rumor is the M3 chips were quite expensive due to the low yields on the new fab process so Apple didn’t seem to want to put them in their less popular computers/devices.
The M4 is on a different fab process. It’s the same feature size, but I don’t think it can run quite as fast. In exchange it’s much cheaper and cooler running. So an M4 sounds worth waiting for.
I have a 12th gen Framework 13", 13" M1 Air, and a 15" M2 Air. I use the Framework laptop for work because I need to use Linux.
The Framework laptop is mediocre just like pretty much all PC laptops. The hinges are awful, if you pick up the laptop upright, about 50% of the time the screen falls flat 180 degrees.
The trackpad is arse in Linux. If you're lucky you can probably get 5 hours battery life, but on a realistic workload you're looking at 2-3 hours.
The keyboard is pretty nice, but I wish ctrl/fn is swapped like Apple and it has the inverted mini-T keyboard arrows (or at least I wish someone would make a swappable keyboard for the Framework). The speakers are bloody awful. Display/Webcam/Mic are fine. I would like more ports over modular ports, but I appreciate the design that went into the modular ports. Speaking of modular ports, sometimes they abruptly stop working and require removing and reseating.
All these small nits really add up and it just feels like a mediocre experience. It is my work laptop, but I try my best to avoid using it over my PC with WSL2 or either Air laptop, but I try my best not to mix work and personal. Both the 13" M1 Air and 15" M2 Air are just amazing compared to the Framework, and I suspect PC laptops in general. They have their drawbacks, price (gouging in some ways), less ports, can't drive dual displays, but their trackpad, finish, speakers, etc. are just amazing. I personally prefer MacOS to Linux for a desktop experience as well.
For one C++ project I work on I need 32GB of memory to compile as sometimes the oom-killer will kill the compiler. That's one of the only reasons I use my WSL2 desktop or Framework laptop since memory is cheap.
- The difference in battery life between the two is ridiculous. Even with a battery that's fairly degraded from all the charge cycles I've put it through, the MacBook still lasts 3-4 times as long under the same workloads - The quality of the touchpad experience is vastly better on the MacBook, especially because of the excellent haptics (like it's almost magical how much it feels like you're clicking a physical button despite there not being one) - The audio quality from the built in speakers is no contest between the two, the Framework simply sounds like crap - The fans of the Framework seem to be necessary far more often and are whinier sounding than the ones on the MacBook - The display on the Framework doesn't look as good, even when calibrated (I haven't been able to figure out if this is just due to me comparing matte vs glossy here though)
The Framework's repairability, modularity, and openness just aren't enough for me to overlook all the negatives. I love and support the goals of Framework and I hope they find ways to improve to the point where it will be easier to choose their laptops over a MacBook.
But most importantly, being modular adds extra weight and size. So completely different leagues. Better off comparing the arm windows laptop to the air m2
However, I do have to admit the Macbook just has a better build quality, and Framework could up their game here. Especially the bezel, the general "gritty" feel of the aluminum, the cheap feeling to the pluggable modules. Reflections in the screen are not mirror-like, they are wavy. The screen resolution and brightness could also be higher by a notch; it's impossible to use the Framework in sunlight but I think Macbooks are in fact barely useable in the sun.
It's one reason while, why I'm personally a big fan of framework and their philosophy (my 16 just arrived the other day), I also know that they aren't for everyone. Repairable, upgradeable, modular, hardware comes with real trade-offs and not everyones value function will prefer those trade-offs.
But that’s expensive. And I agree with you it’d likely make upgrades/repairs much harder or more expensive and may remove modularity all together.
What I don't like about the framework is definitely the aluminium sides that you use to position the touchpad. The tolerances are too high and it makes it look like a prototype. Honestly I would buy just a simple bottom piece with no adjustments possible, center is fine for me
The Mac may have way faster storage. Or higher bandwidth RAM. Or run cooler. Or start faster. Or longer battery life. Or a better trackpad. Or keyboard.
Or not.
A lot of stuff in both machines is commodity parts. Apple doesn’t make its own screens and the Air is the worst screen their offer (I love it, but it’s relative). They don’t make storage chips or RAM chips or WiFi chips. A lot of stuff any company could do.
And, even ignoring the RAM/SSD prices, Apple loves their 30-40% margins. If Framework is willing to make less per machine they have more to spend on each unit even at the same price. Some of this is lost to volume discounts they don’t get, but it still helps.
They use 3rd party NAND and DRAM but the controllers for each are part of their custom SoC (along with their CPU and GPU) and things are a little bit different than how anyone else does it with integrated solutions as a result. I believe the USB/thunderbolt are part of their custom SoC too. Some of the microcontrollers for other functionality (secure enclave, camera/microphone processors, touchpad and the like) are outside the SoC but custom. Wi-Fi is still a standard Broadcom chip, for now at least :).
It's somewhat disappointing how much cool customer hardware is limited to just Apple products to be honest.
You’re right USB/TB interfaces are on the M3 (or whatever) directly.
On the stuff you can opt out of: Their 2x16 GB DDR5-5600 costs nearly as much as 2x32 GB DDR5-5600. The exact same model of WD 4 TB drive costs $250 more than WD sells it for on Amazon. Based on the $1640 price it looks like the author didn't opt to order these separate despite picking the DIY option.
On the stuff you can't opt out of: It's $300 price difference to go up to the 7840U. On the 16 it's another $200 to go up from the 7840HS to the 7940HS. Considering right now I can get a barebone 7940HS mini pc for $432 after instant coupon on Amazon it seems a bit steep to have the price _difference_ between the 7640U and 7940HS be $500. You can also get an external 2560x1600 120 Hz 500 nit monitor for less than the price to upgrade from the 60hz to 120hz option on the Framework. I get high base cost for a niche product but the overall spread here is just excessive when the whole point is supposed to be how much the flexibility opens things up. What good are replaceable parts if replacing them will quickly cost more than just buying a new laptop outright?
The Linux support is nice but it's not like it's the only AMD or Intel laptop with Linux certified accessories out of the box around.
Nope; it's not the same as the old MagSafe (it's actually the _third_ incompatible version).
I love many things about the Framework laptops, and hope Apple learns from them on those things, but ultimately I'm still on Macs because that spec point is worth so much to me.
OS support is the final section, they gave it a point for having solid Linux support.
Most of Framework's employees use Linux, to the extent that the CEO himself runs Windows, to shake out any glitches with Windows support. [0] It's a tiny mom & pop shop compared to Apple!
Should probably start the review with this. I'm not gonna buy a Framework 13 if I want to use macOS, and vice versa.
But I think it’s fine it wasn’t up top. If you want a Mac you already know you have to buy an Apple computer. If you want to run Linux natively you likely already know you don’t want a Mac.
(Yes, Asahi exists and has done an amazing job, but the Mac doesn’t have official Linux support and the Framework does)
Quite a big weight (almost an entire kilo), size, and price (799 vs 1399 USD) jump to get arrow keys I can move my hand to by feel alone 100% of the time.
If you're running GNOME, install GNOME Tweaks (likely in your distro's package manager). The "Fonts" section has a "Scaling Factor" option gives you more granular control than a "large text" toggle. Try 1.37 or 1.50. Nearly all my apps respect it (except for OpenSnitch). Everything looks tack-sharp with none of the fractional resolution scaling drama.
(I write more about this here: https://cmart.blog/framework-surprise )
On something like Excalidraw, for instance, I just move like I have my fingers on the screen. It's great on my Macbook. Is it like that on Linux? I think I might well buy one soon with this and DHH recommending.
I just bought another Asus ROG Zephyrus laptop and got Ubuntu running on it. I have yet to try LLMs on the built-in 4090, but I'm excited about that. Thank you for the review!
I want framework to succeed because i like the idea of modularity but c'mon, go against a MacBook Pro at least.
One comparison that would involve the Pro is "best hardware I can buy regardless of the cost" but not many people ask that question and the answer is either going to be an obvious "a high end Pro" or "Framework because I need Linux and the M3 hardware isn't the best for that".