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Comment by bowsamic | Hacker News Reader

Cyclists just don't see themselves as normal road traffic, so they don't see themselves as having the same responsibilities or held to the same standard, which is something I'm guilty of myself. I've ridden against traffic for short periods or ran red lights on a bike before (where it's clearly safe to do so), since I feel "semi-pedestrian"

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Bikes don’t kill entire families when they crash. They don’t need to follow the same rules as cars. Forcing them to follow rules meant for cars makes the roads more dangerous.

That’s why they should be kept on the sidewalk where they belong. Legalize sidewalk biking, ban road biking.

The horror at this from the cyclist community is why anti-cyclist sentiment is so strong.

In the US side walk are already hilariously under designed and roads are already hilariously over designed. In many places side walks are barley large enough for pedestrians and bikes to cross.

And pedestrian infrastructure is just horrible designed for wheeled vehicles in the first place. As people with kid strollers and wheel chairs find out quickly.

The actual solution, that pretty much every other first world country in the world has recognized is to start to build proper safe infrastructure for bikes (and the US overwhelmingly has plenty of space for that). Or to lower car traffic speed such that sharing can be done safely.

If the US had huge sidewalks everywhere and fantastic design for access of wheeled vehicle, your suggestion might make sense, in the actual world, it doesn't, it just makes the world worse for people that walk and those that cycle.

This is literally already all figured out and backed up with plenty of research but somehow people have to come up with their own 'solutions'.

> In the US side walk are already hilariously under designed and roads are already hilariously over designed.

So many people jog in the streets exactly for this reason. Sidewalks are often poorly maintained and falling apart. I'm not sure how anyone handicapped is supposed to get around.

In a previous life, during heavy winter storms, I would commonly walk in the streets because they were maintained while the sidewalks were covered in ice. The city once changed its plowing algorithm due to angry drivers but for sidewalk maintenance they act almost powerless.

Years ago I visited Amsterdam and the pedestrian experience was incredible. It was like walking around a theme park. Ever since that experience I can't unsee the hell we've created in the states with our cars-first mentality.

That's a terrible idea. Biking on the sidewalk should be illegal for everyone except young kids. Sharing the sidewalks is dangerous when the speed difference between the average cyclist and the average pedestrian is something like 10 mph.

Anti-cyclist sentiment is so strong because they don't want to ride on sidewalks?

That makes no sense at all, something tells me you hate cyclists and will continue to hate cyclists wherever they are.

You're victim blaming.

My favorite unsubstantiated theory about anti cyclist sentiment is that exposes the radically car centric nature of US society and people don't like noticing that.

That can work by widening sidewalks and designing them so that bicycles can cruise safely at full speed, protected from and prioritized over cars, and also clearly separated from the walking sidewalk so there are no unpleasant interactions. The bonus is that if one acquires the space for this by removing car lanes, then the city becomes a little bit nicer for everyone.

> That’s why they should be kept on the sidewalk where they belong.

You think mixing 2 kph pedestrian traffic with 20 kph bicycle traffic is a good idea?

(Sidewalks are probably called that for a reason.)

Different modes of transport have different capabilities, dangers, and responsibilities. Horses, bikes, cars, HGVs, pedestrians—all different, actually there's no real shame in ignoring car laws when you're not driving a car. You have to use your brain and accept the fact that these laws were only made with cars in mind.

I don't think this is controversial but I think HGVs should obey traffic laws

I don't think this is controversial but HGVs tend to have even more stringent traffic laws, ones that cars don't have to follow. In my country HGVs have lower speed limits than cars, for example. I don't think this is controversial but it would be strange for cars to follow rules that only apply to HGVs.

"Against traffic" is different as a bike or led though. Sometimes when lanes are very narrow and visibility isn't good, you need to go against traffic (on the shoulder) so that the driver sees your face and responds faster. And you can see to bail if someone hasn't made room.

But if it's a Chicago intersection and you just said I'm on a bike all 12 lanes have to yield to me and you zoom diagonal in front of cars... the Darwin Awards are never short of applicants.

E-bikes and scooters and stuff have made this 1,000 times worse. The number of drunk kids who think they can go max speed down a hill through intersections and cars will just magically make way for them... Terrifying.

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