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>Older Teslas can't charge on these chargers because they don't have CCS support. Those cars will need to get a CCS retrofit

When you said "these chargers," do you mean the V3 Superchargers with CCS+J3400? Or, do you mean NACS 3rd party charging stations?

Tesla's chargers will still support the Tesla protocol as well as CCS. They do that right now to support older Teslas. Everything else charging on a Tesla charger will talk CCS, just like they've been doing in Europe for a long time.

No other chargers will support Tesla's protocol. They'll all be CCS.

If I understand correctly, this means that Tesla vehicles that do not have CCS retrofit will not work with J3400 NACS third party chargers. Is that correct?

Yes, the car must talk CCS to work.

For example, Teslas in Europe since the Model 3 have had CCS support. The older European Model Ss and Model Xs needed to get CCS retrofits.

The newer North American Teslas have CCS support. The older ones need the retrofit.

The level of misinformation being spread here is severe.

NACS is the Tesla connector. Tesla will support both its homemade protocol on that connector (at the moment far superior because it doesn't require separate payment, you just plug in and charge) and CCS. Other stations will support CCS for fast charging.

This only matters when you want to level 3 charge, i.e, supercharge. Level 2 chargers always work without CCS support because that's just a normal J1772 which was always pin-compatible with NACS (you get a simple plastic adapter with the car).

All Teslas 2021 and newer support CCS. It costs about $250-300 to upgrade an older Tesla to support CCS. Tesla already has upgrade programs in place for some models; you can just schedule it from the app. If you really need support for models that they haven't yet covered, 3rd parties have been offering this upgrade for a long time at the same prices.

There's nothing special here. No one is lying. I have no idea what you're talking about. Sounds like you have some problem with Tesla?

> The plug is just a plug. The more important part is the charging protocol and standard.

Why? I would say the plug matters more than everything else combined. The bits on the wire do basically the same thing across standards and translation isn't very onerous. The plugs vary significantly in what amps and volts they support, and because of heating it's hard to even have an adapter if you want max charging speed.

Yes older Teslas will need a retrofit. That's not too difficult.

Without support for CCS it doesn't matter if you can plug in because the charge session won't start.

If your car talks CCS you can at least use an adapter if you don't have the right inlet. But if your car doesn't talk CCS then it can't charge at all.

You can use an adapter to talk CCS. So plug and protocol are the same in that aspect.

But adapting plugs is a lot more limited than adapting protocols. And you can get a permanent protocol install that has no downsides, while there's no fully-featured way to support multiple high-wattage plugs.

> You can use an adapter to talk CCS.

No, the adapters are dumb adapters that just connect the pins. The plug is separate from the protocol.

An adapter that would also do protocol conversion is bigger, clumsier, and more expensive.

Doing protocol conversion is a tiny little circuit board. It can be much smaller than a plug adapter, and cheaper.

Doing both at once is more expensive than a dumb adapter but that difference doesn't even need to be $5, and it does not need to be bigger.

Here is a real world adapter that does protocol conversion of CCS to Tesla's protocol. It's big, clumsy, and finicky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEE2o6_FRxc

Here is a real world example of a dumb adapter for J3400 to CCS Type 1 combo. It does no protocol conversion. It's smaller, simpler, and works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3-0xRTduPI

Just accept the practical reality that Tesla's protocol is dead. CCS is the protocol going forward. CCS won.

> It's big, clumsy, and finicky

It's big because it's going from the bigger plug to the smaller plug. A dumb adapter would be the same size. And it's very much not an example of a pure protocol converter that isn't changing plugs.

It's finicky because it's a prototype.

> Just accept the practical reality that Tesla's protocol is dead. CCS is the protocol going forward. CCS won.

What makes you think I don't accept this? What does this have to do with anything I've said?

> It's big because it's going from the bigger plug to the smaller plug. A dumb adapter would be the same size.

No. Here is Tesla's CCS to J3400 dumb adapter. It is smaller, simpler, and works: https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter?web=true

> What makes you think I don't accept this?

Everything you have said up to this point.

> No. Here is Tesla's CCS to J3400 dumb adapter. It is smaller, simpler, and works: https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter?web=true

There is no technical reason the adapter in the video wasn't this size (assuming it supports the same current). Adding a chip does not require it to be bigger than this. I don't know why that one was bigger, but it wasn't the active/passive distinction.

> Everything you have said up to this point.

How so? Do you think I'm arguing this because I'm a Tesla fanboy and want the win to go to them? I assure you that's not the case. I just think plug matters more than protocol as a general statement for EV charging.

Please explain how CCS being a definitive winner affects a single thing I have said.

Here is Tesla's CHAdeMO to Tesla protocol adapter. It's big, clumsy, and they've stopped selling it: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/chademo-adapter-ma...

Here's a CCS to CHAdeMO adapter. It's big, clumsy, and expensive: https://evniculus.eu/products/adapter-ccs2-to-chademo-for-ni...