Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews
cbc.ca
cbc.ca
Simply don't use Yelp for posting reviews or reading reviews, this is the best thing anyone can do.
PS: I speak from close personal experience with my wife small business being hit hard by Yelp algorithms for filtering review, and Yelp scammy sales people.
I guess to me it seems infinitely easier to criticize the way someone else does it than to present a more efficient way of doing it.
Instead of having the owner's friends post reviews, they post reviews and then flag every poor review, attempting to get them taken off. Or idiots with an axe to grind flag all the good reviews.
- a woman owns a shady company
- she tries to get her friends to write five star reviews of her on Yelp
- Yelp intentionally tries to filter out these reviews so the site isn't filled with spam opinions
- the woman is upset
The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this.
From an algorithmic standpoint, filtering out reviews from new users makes sense. Otherwise you'll get the owner and friends stuffing in good reviews.
Just look at what the data might look like for the 17 people. -They all sign up in a period of a few weeks. -They all review this one place and nothing else. -16 of the 17 never sign back in again.
It's pretty clear that it's a blatant rating stuff, so filter it out. Again, I'm not saying that the algorithm is perfect, but it makes sense to at least filter out these reviews.
I don't think that really has been documented elsewhere. There have been lawsuits and allegations, but no proof, as far as I know, that Yelp has offered to compromise their reviews for cash. Yes, they give business owners willing to advertise some editorial control over their listing, but the extent of that control is fairly well-understood and not much more nefarious than Google's text ads. Correct me if there's documented evidence otherwise.
Instead, we get article after article of business owners complaining because their Yelp reviews suck and their obvious attempts to game them have been thwarted. But that's exactly what Yelp should be doing. They're useless if they can be gamed. They're also useless if it becomes well-known that they're pay-to-play, but again, I don't think there's actual evidence of that. They'd have to be pretty stupid to take that course.
Looking at the 17 filtered reviews, 16 of them are 5-star reviews from people with 0 friends and less than 5 reviews (mostly only have 1 review). There's also a 1-star review from a person with 0 friends and 1 review.
It seems like to me that their filtering algorithm is working pretty well.
You also have to wonder why HN upvoted it so that it appears in the top 5 threads.
The news story is probably just looking for a sensationalist headline that will get them hits.
What's our excuse? :)
And don't even get me started on the lack of ability to vote or comment on YC companies job posting spam (the reason for which I also understand)... I've spoken with a handful of these companies that end up listing multiple times, and even they have expressed interest in votes/comments simply to get feedback as to why their listings don't seem to work.
I'd never use Yelp for reviews. Either they are glowing when they shouldn't be, or they are rubbish when they should be glowing. Who would want to use a site like that?!?
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/yelp-and-the-business-of-e...
http://consumerist.com/2010/02/yelp-accused-of-more-negative...
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/02/27/yelp-accused-of-extorti...
http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/04/yelp-lawsuit-extortion/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/17/complaints-against-yelps-ex...
http://www.pcworld.com/article/190231/yelp_hit_with_class_ac...
http://www.wired.com/business/2010/04/yelp-fights-fraud-alle...
Yelp has a pretty shady history with this. The class action suit from a year or two ago was dismissed, so I assume what they are doing is legal in some sense.
I really don't get it. I mean, could Zagat have gotten away with this in the pre-internet era? "Hey man, love your restaurant, but each star costs $100."
If I had $1 for every time a business owner writes a review for themselves (signing up for an account with their business email address no less), our system removes it and then they email me within minutes complaining that a genuine customer had written them a review, where has it gone...
There are lots of variables our algorithms track to try and make a decision on whether to filter a review or not and of course it will get things wrong but if there wasn't any filtering in place, the amount of spammy reviews would be overwhelming.
I feel somewhat for Yelp, even with all their millions of dollars to throw at the problem as there is no easy solution, ignoring any potential pay for stars type nonsense. That is something I would never do and am very proactive when it comes to protecting small businesses.
Like I said though, after years of seeing people try to pull a fast one, the warmth in my heart fades.
Every single time it's been very clear that Yelp is telling these businesses that they have a problem. But rather than acting on this extraordinarily valuable feedback the owners/managers react by blaming Yelp for the bad reviews or accusing Yelp of hiding the good reviews.
This behavior frequently exposes the characteristics about which customers are complaining: there's a problem, the owners have been told about it, and they're killing the messenger.
EDIT: I have no connection to Yelp whatsoever. I'm communicating the scope of my experience and the conclusions I've drawn. These conclusions may be grossly flawed. It wouldn't be the first time today. :)
What kind of explanation do you have?
We can pick apart Yelp's model and likely should, but it does appear to discount "drive-by" Yelpers who only sign up to give a good review to a single business.
This is a classic 'Yelp' business practice and many business owners you can talk to will have many of such reports.
I've not witnessed this scenario you present and I have no relationship to Yelp that might give me some greater insight than anyone else. I have no idea why this might happen; I'm limited to communicating based on my own observations.
In general the labels from business owners are not trust worthy which gets them into these situations. Thus they try and create other ways of identifying spam: like user engagement on the site. However, engagement doesn't always work as a metric as spammers can cultivate spam accounts by posting lots of "legitimate" reviews on unrelated businesses and then sell reviews from the accounts to attack (boost) specific businesses. Finally, users who have a tremendous experience at a business and go on Yelp to give them 5 star reviews may have no history with yelp except as a passive browser. The engagement metric will weight poorly for their review.
So what is to be done? I don't have a good answer for that. This seems more like a human problem than a technical one. The best course seems to be: act ethically, serve your customers with compassion, write responses offering assistance to negative reviewers, and if you feel Yelp (and similar review system are a bad idea) put your advertising dollars elsewhere.
Even a simpler approach: why hide those reviews. Keep them here and introduce a way for other viewer to rate the reviews aka 'X people found that review helpful'. That way all reviews are visible and the random person reading the Yelp page can decide for themselves. Unfortunately Yelp and their filtering system have a different approach and instead usually end up filtering real customer reviews and leave the more 'spammy' visible. Then after a few weeks like that, you will receive a phone call from Yelp sales folks telling you that if you purchase 'ads' then your potential 5 stars review (if any are left visible) will be pushed to the top.
Sorry but for me I consider that a scam!
Verifying a "business" relationship may work but it still won't solve all of the problems. You can still pay people to show up at your restaurant, pay with their credit card and write a five star review. You can still pay people to show up at a competitors restaurant, pay with their credit card and write a one star review. It simply increases the cost of the spam (which is a good thing). They should probably create a way to do this but it won't solve the fundamental problem: the reviewer pool is an unreliable source of information.
"X people found that review helpful"
A helpful review is not the same as an accurate review based on experience. I would find a well written review helpful. However, the review could still be inaccurate or fake just well written. This is simply another data point for spam detection and one with many confounders at that. One has to simply google around about the state of Amazon reviews to see the flaws in this approach.
Once again. I stand by my assertion, detecting spam reviews is extremely difficult because it is a human problem.
and
So what is to be done?
From a consumer's point of view, don't use Yelp. Easy.
Read this very well written article on the problem and possible solution and maybe you'll have a better idea of the problem at hand.
http://justinvincent.com/page/1874/yelp-you-cost-me-2000-by-...
And I'm not saying that a problem doesn't exists: I'm saying that *within the scope of my experience( the complaints about Yelp have been more about owners/managers not wanting to deal with something that sucks about their business.
You never know if personal reviews on various sites were driven by ulterior motives. Although it's likely that the majority of personal reviews are genuine, you should try not to be swayed by just a few reviews without further research.
It may happen, but is less likely to happen than non-professionals. You have a much larger issue with selection bias for reviews, and a much easier way for vendors to bias them. I've been in shops that insist, rather persistently, that I write a good review for their store on their computer, at the shop.
Yelp does seem to have a conflict of interest with advertisements, but considering the only alternative seems to be a subscription-based model, and people don't like paying for things on the Internet, I suspect that this is still the best possible case at the moment. Plenty of room for innovation, though.
It's what Google and many others use to stop ad revenues biasing their product.
It's pretty well known that Yelp is a joke -- wasn't the #1 restaurant in San Francisco some hole in the wall taco place a few months back?