Boot2Gecko demo & quick hack | Hacker News Reader

Boot2Gecko demo & quick hack

paulrouget.com

95 pointsthere22 comments

I like the idea of Boot2Gecko, but it's 100% pointless as a project. We had a shot to have a pure web based OS with webOS, and absent awesome hardware and marketing nobody bought it. Mozilla building their own Firefox version of webOS is not going to make this kind of thing successful.

Great devices are a marriage of hardware and software. Focus too much on one at the peril of the other.

Shipping an OS to basically closed hardware devices - phones is a much different ballgame than shipping a web browser app on a preinstalled operating system and with Android already being both free and popular and open source, I don't know why any hardware maker would use Boot2Gecko.

I think the real trick isn't convincing hardware makers -- they do what the operators ask them to (at least in the non-Apple world). Operators like Telefonica are interested. See e.g. http://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2012/02/27/mozilla-in-mobile-th...

Mobile operators spend a lot of management cycles trying to figure out how to avoid becoming 'dumb pipes' like their broadband counterparts.

They know they have unique infrastructure capabilities and, to their credit, want to create additional value to end-users. In conjunction with their current purchasing power and influence over hardware vendors, forward-looking mobile carriers can definitely view B2G as a possible competitive edge if they can figure out how to bring one to market in the most cost-effective (read: cheapest and least disruptive) way possible.

It's a breath of fresh air considering the capabilities and branding that Mozilla has. I would love to be a fly on the wall in those discussions.

I actually started to write a response to this post about how WebOS and this project seem totally different in terms of the companies involved and being open source from the start, but then I thought more about it...

This project doesn't really feel like mozilla is trying to compete with Android or iOS in terms of developing a traditional mobile operating system.

It almost feels like mozilla is trying to lay down the ground work for what a web based mobile device SHOULD be. The entire UI using web technologies, JavaScript API's for everything. Think about that for a second... What users think about as the "OS" (basically the home skin, application launcher, widgets, themes and UI controls) is just an infinitely hackable web project for any company to come along and build on top of. Gecko or Webkit + Linux under the hood and thats it.

IMHO the underlying technology has no significance. People still write native iOS apps even though HTML5 is available. Nobody will say oh they used javascript and web for every thing I must use/develop for this phone.

I went to their boot2geco meetup, and their goal is to make sure that apple, google and microsoft implements browser friendly apis like dialer, phonebook, etc. Nokia and Samsung already pushing webkit and MS to implement device apis based on Mozilla's implementation.

Mozilla is betting on Javascipt and open web. They think that is the future and I agree with them.

Google is already restricting how much manufacture can customize with latest android versions, and this opens a new door for them.

Mozilla is already working with manufacture to make sure they can build boot2geko devices on existing product line without adding additional cost.

Well Mozilla partnered with Telefonica on this one: http://www.openwebdevice.com/

So I guess only a hardware vendor is missing?

Technically you don't need a hardware vendor on board as it uses firmware from android; hardware support is there already.

As far as I understand, B2G feel that their USP is performance on lower-spec phones, for use in the developing world. Yes, you can get cheap Android phones, but they generally run like crap. I think B2G are aiming for sub $100 smart phones that actually run the web and web apps/games well. Good luck to them - its an admirable aim.

That's a nice theory. But so far I haven't seen a single demo of B2G running on "low-end hardware". I've only seen it running on last year's high-end Galaxy S2 phone, which still costs like $500 unlocked.

I also don't know how Javascript can possibly run any faster than Java apps, especially on low-end hardware. Unless all you're showing is a webpage with text?

Show me B2G on a 600 Mhz ARM11 CPU phone, that's faster than Android, and then I'll buy it.

I agree, but I guess if the future really is web apps, then it doesn't matter how fast Android runs Java? Web rendering is everything in that situation.

I predict that HTML5 + JavaScript is the future of desktop and mobile apps.

This is probably the most widely known technology to people. Apart from Boot2Gecko you can develop HTML/JS apps for Windows Phone and Windows 8 (metro style)

One thing I hope this promotes is a good interface for accessing device hardware via HTML. In particular i had a hard time trying to access a webcam feed to embed in a webpage when i tried it a while ago. The ability to simply capture images/audio/video for use in a web app, from your phone or your webcam, would be tremendously fun.

As far as i'm aware the current solution for this is still to use Flash, or a native application. I'd be happy to be wrong. In any case making a phone entirely controllable via web standards will ensure that such capabilities are avilable and proven.

If anyone has more info on webcam integration with HTML5 video, this stackoverflow post could use some love: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1318834/whats-the-status-...

This is going to be great. Should be far easier than Objective-C, Java and whatever Windows Phone 7 uses for simple apps.

I'm still not totally convinced about large code bases being developed in JS but I would say that MOST iOS and Android apps don't need "programming in the large" features. But, I could also see some kind of compile-to-javascript language like CoffeeScript making this easier.

I hope this stays up to date with the now fast moving Gecko for Desktop so it has the latest and greatest HTML/CSS/JS features as they get implemented.

Another concern would be: Where does mozilla stand with hardware manufacturers and cell carriers? I feel that this isn't going to gain much traction if someone has to buy an Android device and then hack it. Windows Phone 7 has proven that even if you have the hardware, you still need Verizon and AT&T (in the U.S) on your side as well.

Several carries are already interested, and Telefonica has already partnered up with Mozilla to create a real phone in the next year.

Telefonica press release for those who missed it:

http://saladeprensa.telefonica.com/jsp/base.jsp?contenido=/j...

I'm in love with this project. Any news on a timeline for a usable(ish) release?

I believe Mozilla is releasing a beta to Brazil soon, and will do a large release around September 2012.

Most definitely can research this on my own, but I'm curious if its possible to run this on iPhone hardware? i.e. replace the native OS?

I don't know that anyone's tried that yet. Boot2Gecko is focusing on making a real phone that people will really be able to buy, so working on a platform that requires "fighting the manufacturer" isn't a priority. But it's open source, so it's always possible that someone could take on what's likely a huge task! Currently B2G works on a couple of models, and requires Android ICS: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko/B2G_b...

Thanks for the info. Bit beyond me, attempting that. But definitely interested in trying it if someone pulls it together.

...and now I'm wondering if it'll run on an RPi.

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