No one ever really addresses this trade off.
The US is heavily bifurcated socio-economically. It's quite simple and nobody much likes to talk about it (admit it): the top 50% do not want to ride on mass transit with the bottom 50%. And even more so, the top 1/3 absolutely do not want to ride on mass transit with the bottom 1/3. The top 1/3 pay most of the taxes in the US.
In the US the top 50% are relatively well off, affluent by Western standards. The top 1/3 in the US is equivalent to Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway - highly rich, highly educated.
The bottom 1/3 is not well off. The bottom 1/3 is poor and uneducated by Western standards, with extremely high rates of violent crime, murder and untreated mental illness. The murder/violent crime/rape rate in the bottom 1/3 is truly terrifying in the US. Nothing is done to address (improve) any of it.
edit: The same premise largely applies to the top 1/3 blocking the construction of new housing, because they don't want to live near the bottom 1/3. The people that can make new construction happen (financially, politically), are the ones that don't want it to happen. This goes on in blue cities, it goes on in red cities.
Even then, the system is slow, sparse, unreliable. Most of the time this wouldn't be a desired transport, more like one of the rare ones available.
That's due to the exceptionally mediocre social safety net in the US, among numerous other causes.
If you're in the bottom 1/3 you have very limited access to quality+sustained mental health treatment. If you're in the top 1/3, you have nearly unlimited access to getting treatment for a mental illness.
It's not millionaires roaming the streets of US cities looking like zombies, blasted out on drugs, hauling around untreated mental illnesses.
Good public transit = London, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore, Amsterdam, Berlin, Seoul. It does not equal LA, SF, NYC. LA's got dismantled and is slowly being rebuilt but it's crap. SF's is stinky slow and gross. NYC's is well used but it's not nice by any definition.
Agreed. The point the GP is trying to make though is that "good public transit" isn't /just/ about infrastructure, it's also about the society around that infrastructure that produces the people who ride it with you. I happily ride public transport while I'm in Europe and even in Latin America, I won't ride it in the US. It's not that I'm opposed to public transport, in fact the opposite, it's that in the US I am likely to be violently accosted, murdered, or robbed while that's basically never going to happen to me in Europe or even in Latin America.
For example, NYC's subway had 2 billion riders last year. How many of them do you think were victims of a crime while riding?
Either you're claiming that a quarter of the world's population at some point rode the NYC subway last year, or they're counting ridership non-uniquely, meaning that's a much smaller number of people riding multiple times a year (much more probable).
> How many of them do you think were victims of a crime while riding?
Assuming the latter interpretation, the absolutely most charitable interpretation of the metrics (including the assumption they're complete) says a crime happens every million rides[1]. But that greatly depends on what you mean by a "crime", as only the most severe crimes are counted, and they are only counted if reported.
As someone who's actually ridden public transport several times in the US and doesn't anymore, the reason why is that I observed crimes happening almost constantly. I made the mistake of riding the RTD after moving to Denver and found people openly smoking fentanyl in the train cars, and saw a fight break out. I have been able to personally avoid the consequences of this because I take precautions when I am in public and now actively avoid public transport in the US. FWIW, it's bad enough in NYC that crazy things (most of which are crimes) happening on the subway is a running joke in New York City that's considered relatable enough outside NYC that it's a regular gag on SNL.
[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/nyregion/nyc-subway-crime...
I ride it daily to get to work and there absolutely is a crime problem down there. Even if you're not the direct victim you'll see things and thus know that the crime is real. The NYC subway crime thing isn't just some made up thing that people don't have experience with.
We just don’t get nice things I guess.
You saw no criminals, nor SDF nor mentally ill?
You’re either lying, and have never actually been on the Paris metro. Or you’re lying, and you saw plenty of SDF and mentally ill, but just wanted to take a jab at the US.
There is crime on the Paris metro all the time. Fights. Mentally ill people screaming. Open theft. And heaven help if you’re a woman. Maybe a guy comes and sits down next to you and pleasures himself.
I feel confident calling BS on your comment.
People who only think in binary like you are really annoying and aren’t very interesting to talk to though.