Eating Processed Red Meat Linked to Increased Dementia Risk
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
Why garbage? For 2 main reason.
First reason: the methodology. They way those correlation studies work is that they study large number of people (here 130k) over long period (here "up to 43 years").
They want to study "effect of X on Y". Here X is "consumption of red meat, processed or not" and Y is "dementia".
So what they do is they periodically ask "how much of X do you do". In this case apparently "how many servings of processed red meat you eat per month", "how many servings of unprocessed red meat".
Would be able to tell a precise "how many servings of processed red meat you eat per month"? Like, what is "processed meat"? What is "serving"?
If you're not taking meticulous notes you have not hope of answering this precisely, from memory. And let's face it, those 130k people are not fastidious scientists, they just answer a periodic survey that has no importance to them.
The opposite of "precise" is garbage. And garbage data leads to garbage conclusions.
Second reason: confounding of factors. No controlling for other variables. What if dementia is affected by heavy drinking, heavy smoking, drug use, lack of muscles or excessive sugar / carb intake?
What if heavy drinking is the real causation with 54% increase in dementia and the 14% correlation is purely coincidental i.e. in this particular 130k population, heavy drinkers are also eaters of processed meat?
You should ignore all those kinds of studies. They are all garbage.
There's also a general strand of anti-meat studies.
When you study "effect of eating X on bad outcome Y", then you'll find a correlation to something at some point. It's just a matter of time. The more studies you do, the more likely you'll find a spurious correlation.
Somehow the studies of "eating meat causes bad Y" get a lot of press, including landing on HN page. When was the last time you've seen a similar study for vegan diet or drinking soda or eating candy?
If I were to do it every month for 43 years, I'd probably become pretty good at it.
Your complaint is that it's a self-reporting study. Sure, not very rigorous, but the article doesn't say it was only based on self-reporting.
> And let's face it, those 130k people are not fastidious scientists, they just answer a periodic survey that has no importance to them.
How do you know?
> Second reason: confounding of factors. No controlling for other variables.
What's your source? The NYTimes page doesn't link to the paper (claiming it's not published yet,) and since they're not even mentioning who the author is, it seems strange that they would go into confounding variables.
This is a terrible article, because I can't say anything about whether the study is worth following up or not, and I agree with others it shouldn't be on HN (until published). You had a much more tangible take-away, and I'm curious how.
To the GP's point, that would make this garbage.
Maybe the article is so bad because the study is bad, or maybe it's just NYT misrepresenting it.
/s
There are set questionnaires that are filled out on some short period, weekly, monthly, etc... so there is a lot of data.
Self reporting has problems. But this is more to get broad trends, such that more detailed studies can zero in on any interesting findings.
Joking?
So science without observation? No exploration?
Sure, correlation isn't causation, how pedantic, but it can be an indicator.
Yes, canaries in coal mines are not killed by evil spirits, but dying was indicating something to investigate.
This sounds more like an anti-science bot.
This study was on processed food. NOT MEAT.
Junk Food Vegan studies also find problems with processed foods.
There are plenty of studies posted on soda and candy. Probably so many that it isn't news anymore.
Right from the article, plenty of references for your 'vegan' bias to chew on:
"like soy protein isolate, high fructose corn syrup, modified starches, flavorings or color additives. Many of these foods also have high levels of sugar, fat or sodium, which have long been known to adversely affect health. sodas, flavored yogurts, instant soups and most breakfast cereals, make up a huge part of the American diet."
So why is this here?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/well/eat/ultraprocessed-f...
It isn't 'all' meat that is bad.
Either Vegan or Carnivore can be good as long as they are un-processed.
You can be a junk-food vegan and unhealthy And You can eat bacon all day and be carnivore, and unhealthy.
This puts more emphasis on whole foods. Eat as close to source as possible.
Here's how to make a smoke sausage:
you kill a pig
grind its meat
add salt and maybe pepper or other flavorings made from plant
put in a casing
smoke it
The other way to make sausage, the industrial process, involves adding a bunch of chemicals to make it more shelf stable and god knows what else.
It's the chemicals that are harmful, not the meat or salt.
can be a problem, at least from a carcinogenic pov.
That would be a short and brutal war resulting in the total defeat of the Vegan army. If it somehow were to develop into a longer conflict the Carnivores would target the supplement factories and storage facilities in Vegania upon which they could just wait before the Vegan army succumbed to malnutrition.
The Vegans knew they only had to hold out long enough, time was on their side as the Carnivores began to die from Heart Attacks and Strokes and various metabolic diseases. They only needed patience as the carnivores succumbed to their own bad habits.
Sadly, most Carnivores were also well armed, and being Carnivores, could eat the Vegans. So the battle carries on, with the Vegans, while healthier, remain hiding in small enclaves.
While most inhabitants of Vegania also violated the rules and regulations of their creed - which explained the failure of the supplement denial campaign - they had assumed that their leaders at least would show restraint. They felt betrayed by their betters, they were promised a better world but that promise turned out to be hollow. What started with a trickle soon became a flood and within a few short months Vegania was but a side note in the history books. Some Vegans joined the Carnivores, most turned to the Vegetarians. The world was at peace, for a while...
boy: "Father, why are we leaving"
father: "They have started rounding up scientist and sending them to re-education camps to force them to learn how to BBQ, and cook steaks correctly".
boy: "I'm scared".
father: "I heard that one guy cooked a steak well done, and they forced him to eat hot dogs".
- boy whimpers, as another explosion sounds close by
boy: "but papa, is it true what they say about supplements? Tell me the truth".
father: "no son, B12 is produced by the plants that the cows eat".
boy: "but what about collagen and creatine, surely those are only from animals"
father: "son, we are animals, and we produce our own collagen and creatine. When eaten in a suppliment, the body breaks them down into amino acids that can also be found in plants directly".
father: "we were sabotaged by our own people. junk food vegans distorted the studies. and the agriculture industry over-farmed the soil so it no longer has all the minerals that went into the plants of our forefathers, nor into the animals that eat the plants"
boy:(looking up wistfully with a tear) "Why can't we tell them. Is there nothing we can do to let them know"
father: "We will be back. They are collapsing, dying in droves, their health care systems collapsing under the weight of the dead. They wont survive long. Maybe the next generation can learn"
son: "papa, do you really think so".
(Sadly the father looks around, as explosions come closer, he hears the ravenous yells of the hungry carnivores. He puts his hand on his sons shoulder to quickly guide him onto the ship that will take them out to sea in search of more enlightened lands. His own shoulders slouch as he knows that ignorance grips most of the world and there is little hope of finding a friendly port).
I can see by your coat, my friend
You're from the other side
There's just one thing I got to know
Can you tell me please, who won?
Say, can I have some of your purple berries?
Yes, I've been eating them for six or seven weeks now
Haven't got sick once
Probably keep us both alive
Horror grips us as we watch you die
All we can do is echo your anguished cries
Stare as all human feelings die
We are leaving, you don't need us
Go, take your sister then, by the hand
Lead her away from this foreign land
Far away, where we might laugh again
We are leaving, you don't need us
And it's a fair wind blowin' warm
Out of the south over my shoulder
Guess I'll set a course and goVegans tried to eat some dirt, hopping to get some holly B12 bacteria from it.