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Comment by bjourne | Hacker News Reader

Yes, they work. Cold calling and similar methods are all about the the numbers so even if you are immune to them, enough people aren't. Pesticides isn't everyone's cup of tea, perhaps you'd be more swayed by Doctors without Borders soliciting donations for aid to Gaza or something? You want to tell Jenny the volunteer you're so cheap so can't make a $5 donation? And before you know it you have signed up for a $10 monthly donation. Jenny will send you a thank you card in the mail. :) Couple the emotional manipulation with some insistence and aggressiveness and you'll have lots of sales.

BTW, I don't think you are immune. The only truly immune people are those that don't understand the language and/or have no money.

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> Doctors without Borders soliciting donations

We had such a visit recently; we were so appalled at the very idea that DwB would stoop so low as to send door-to-door solicitors around the town, that we immediately assumed this person was scoping the block for a potential break-in. Because he asked about our neighbor and we accidentally let it slip that he's away, we put up a hidden surveillance camera[0] overlooking the stairway and both our doors' for a couple days, just in case someone decides to come back at night. We also immediately queried Doctors Without Borders about this, warning them about a potential crime done using their brand.

Imagine our surprise where Doctors Without Borders responded to confirm that the person who visited us was, in fact, legitimately soliciting donations for them, and that they actually do door-to-door. Something in me died that day.

[0] - We repurposed a nanny cam for this, where by "nanny cam" I mean Ubiquiti G4 Instant, because the only way you can get a baby camera these days that doesn't send videos of your kids to random third-party servers is by buying industrial surveillance hardware.

I'm kind of surprised by your response.

If everyone who was soliciting was like Doctors without Borders, there wouldn't be a problem. That's a worthy cause.

The problem is the scammers, not DWB. The fact that you think it's legitimate causes trying to get support that are the problem and not the scammers makes my head spin.

I disagree with the last statement. I have seen a handful of people close to me get scammed and have developed a “no thank you” attitude to everything.

Want to donate to save this or that? No thank you

Want this super great deal on this awesome thing? No thank you

Want free money? No thank you

If I want something I’ll Google it and do some research and then just get that thing. I’m glad to overpay to do things my way. Nothing would change my mind. Ever.

Ever?

Aging might.

My dad was like you.

Found out recently he has a girlfriend stuck in Nigeria that he was on his way to the bank to help.

My opinion in recent years is that, completely by accident, we made the internet more secure then the phone system.

On the internet we have - for it's faults - the DNS and X.509 certificate systems. When I go to my bank's website, I know it's my bank.

We desperately need telecommunications to implement the same thing - i.e. businesses must present a valid cryptographic certificate which ties back to their registration number when using the phone system.

At the very least, so someone claiming to be a business would have a clear "invalid certificate" message displayed on the receiver.

Could individuals implement this on top of the current phone system?

E.g., each call starts with an attempted modem conversation to validate certificates, keys, etc.

And then the call is forwarded to the recipient's actual phone depending on rules related to that first step.

> The only truly immune people are those that don't understand the language and/or have no money.

I have to disagree on that point. I have a no soliciting sign. It is an IQ test - I don't do business with people who can't or won't read the sign. I used to work in sales and had to deal with rejection enough that I have absolutely no problem asking people if they can read the sign and closing the door in their face if they start to argue that what they are doing isn't "soliciting" for some technical reason.

And yet if I showed up with exactly what you need in my hand at a reasonable price you wouldn't even think about the sign. The sign doesn't mean anything.

I would assume you’re screwing me and turn you down. If you’ve got enough margin to do sales that way, you’re screwing me, even if I can’t see it. It’s a no.

Everybody makes a margin, that's how the free market works.

But let's say you're a communist and I show up with a compound and a few followers, I suspect we have a deal to discuss regardless of the sign ;)

> enough margin

It’s wild to me people can say things like this so confidently. I’ve said no to everything my entire life. I don’t care what you’re offering, I’m already seething with rage that I have to talk to you. If I want something I’ll look for it same rules as avoiding phishing.

Really? If you're hungry and your coworker shows up with a pizza you just tell them to fuck off?

:wave:

Hey, the rest of the thread is over here. It looks like you moved the goalposts so far away you might be lost.

Not really, it's exactly my point. If you're a game collector and I show up with a game at a good price, that's a sale. If I pull into your driveway with the classic car you're looking for the sale is on the table. The sign means nothing, what matters is what you've got and how much it'll cost.

Those are very niche. How would you have known that's what I'm looking for? Sounds like groundwork for a larger crime. I'll say I'm busy but take your name and number and later do OSINT research on you to level the playing field. Why would I engage someone who knows where my family sleeps when I don't know where theirs sleeps?

Successful cold callers research their customers beforehand to know what they want, and don't call people who probably aren't interested.

If you're a game collector and I show up with a rare game, you're probably interested. Even if you don't buy it, at least I'm not wasting your time. If I show up with an Ethernet switch ASIC, you're probably not interested and I am wasting your time. That's why Marvell would cold-call Juniper and Cisco, not Antonio Romero Monteiro.

Showing up on my doorstep uninvited is at best an invasion of privacy, and at worst a crime in progress that I interrupted.

So you don't want a free pizza because the neighbour's 3 year old son ordered 30 of them on doordash and their freezer isn't big enough?

Definitely not, but I like my neighbors and like maintaining good relations with people in the nighrborhood, so I would forgive them.

You know, I thought about this overnight. I'm pretty sure I feel this way partially because talking to people real time isn't free for me, it has a cost. I have to mask neurodivergence all day to get along in the corporate world, I do not want to put the mask on again unexpectedly when there's a knock at the door. It's my off time, it's like getting paged or something.

The second part is the privacy aspect, I don't want to do business in a power asymmetry -- they can reach me where I sleep but I cannot do the same to them. I don't want anyone I engage in a business relationship with to get any ideas of any type about who/what they see at my home, from judging negatively to jealously to planning to come back and take it. It's unnecessary risk surface for a business transaction.

All this person has done is illustrate a sociopathic inability to understand other peoples’ experiences. Nothing they have said is remotely interesting and is an obvious no from my perspective. The only situation I’d even pick up a phone or answer the door is the neighbor. That would be a no thanks. The fact that they keep pushing and clearly think their juvenile worldview applies to everyone reinforces my original statement. It’s wild to me people can say these things with a straight face.

Turns out I've never in my life had a successful cold caller reach out to me, I guess. I can't think of a single reason in 2024 that a random telephone call would get me to part ways with my money. In fact, I've had very few instances where a salesperson adds value to a transaction period.

You could be offering hundred dollar bills for my garbage - I wouldn't even listen.

Everybody wants something and everybody has a price they'll pay for it.

Not from random strangers soliciting it. The chance that they are going to scam you is much too high to trust anything they offer.

Even in such a situation – and that's actually happened before – I'd still say no and buy the product from a competitor, even if that means paying twice as much.

Also, the last time a doctors without borders person showed up, I tried pressuring her into joining a local protest a few days later until she got uncomfortable and decided to leave.

All types of forceful advertising – be that online ads or door-to-door salesmen – are absolute bullshit and shouldn't exist in a civilized society.

My doorbell is labeled "no soliciting" for a reason.

Yes, it would mean something, and, yes, I would think about the sign. In fact, I did this about a month ago to someone who was selling a service I was actively in the market for. As I said, and I can only say this to you again, I can't understand it for you: the sign is an IQ test. I will not do business with someone who cannot or will not read the sign.

I'm immune because I don't answer my phone if you're not in my limited contacts list, and if you're an unknown number, you automatically go straight to voicemail.

Drastic measures like this had to be taken because I had a DBA for awhile and foolishly listed my actual number with the business. Basically my number is forever 'on the list', so, I made my own list.

Of course, if you're on my list and you call asking for ten bucks, well, I'll probably give it to you.

Not disagreeing that it must work, however, I think immunity is possible with a simple heuristic: Say no to all inbounds.

Or more specifically, if you get a call and it's not from someone you know then you simply hang up. Relevant information comes from you seeking it out, not the other way around.

For privacy sake, and having encountered too many scammers, I have a hard rule about never giving money or personal info to any request, for any reason. If it's something I want to buy or participate in, I will follow up through other channels after some online research. If it's a business I already buy from, still a scam, I will use their website on my own. If it is emotionally charged or urgent, it is definitely a scam.

The most manipulated I've been in recent years is when I actually feel bad for the salesperson because their job sucks so much.

I have personally never bought / donated anything from / to a cold-caller or a door-to-door salesman. At most it might pique my interest into doing my own research into the field/product and seek out the market leader on my own.

>BTW, I don't think you are immune. The only truly immune people are those that don't understand the language and/or have no money.

Incorrect - I'm immune because I presume 100% of solicitations are scams and behave as such. I don't listen to solicitations from anyone. I will just hang up, end the conversation, walk away, or close the door.

Even if I did listen to a solicitation and I was interested in the product or giving to the cause I would never actually buy anything, remember, I am presuming Jenny is a scammer. Jenny isn't getting any money from me no matter what she's selling.

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