Medieval
teenage.engineering
teenage.engineering
What was it about the video that made you think it's generative? That it's surrealistic?
And it consists of short, highly composed shots, which is how non-professional (read: non-Sora) AI videos are these days. They create the individual images then animate them into 2-4 second clips with slight, predictable movement.
Seems like the people at TE have fun over-designing gadgets that are more aesthetic than usable. Good for them that they've managed to make a viable business out of it.
You're saying this like their over-designing blocks/prevents basic usability, but the small amount of TE devices I've tried, they just look good, are easy to understand and are easy to use. Maybe the sound/workflow isn't revolutionary, but not every device needs to be either.
I'll still keep mostly to Elektron, but can't say I haven't been close to buying an OP-1 before the prices got too crazy.
I meant it more like they are not building products that are there to meet some need for the general population that isn't met, they aren't designing and building general use-case type products, but instead building extremely niche things like medieval samplers. Oddball, extreme niche uses. Like they aren't trying to build something like a piano that's light and easy to move, or a guitar where the strings never break, but these fun gimmicky toys. Something nobody ever asked for but which makes you smile.
You're describing like 90% of all music hardware that is being launched today :) Who really needs a new delay pedal when there already exists thousands of them? Hardly makes them being gimmicks though.
A groovebox with a sampler isn't that niche at all I'd say, it's just the theme/design that is niche, but considering it's also a small hardware upgrade compare to the original, it isn't just a different theme but an incremental upgrade.
That said, as a electronic music producer myself I wouldn't buy this either, but not because of the theme/design.
But as much as this is a half-joke, it also encapsulates an attitude that Teenage Engineering caters to: A lot of musicians love new experiences, even if they are minute changes. Because music is ultimately about taste, and playing it is about finding just the right minute changes, and creating it is about finding just the right inspiration.
Yeah, it's a bit gimmicky, but that's the point: Novelty to stimulate new ideas.
“Tales of the EP-1320: Medieval (teenage engineering)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism_in_the_Channel_Islan...
(B&H is great for photo/video, but for music, they're not it, IMHO)
Looks great blown up on a 4K monitor due to extensive use of SVG.
Could it be because, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1320 "In France, a large group of common people band together in Normandy on Easter Sunday to begin a crusade, after a teenage shepherd says he was visited by the Holy Spirit" (my emphasis).
Regarding the year dating, more likely to be a reference to just the general medieval theme. Only event in the year (in Sweden) I could find that is notable is the execution of Magnus Birgersson (Heir apparent). Not sure why'd they reference that though, so I'm guessing it's just a number that is "close" to 133 + in the medieval times.
Edit: to add something unrelated, until today I never knew how badly I needed hurdy gurdy electronic music in my life.
- 128MB memory including 96MB ROM sounds and 32MB user sample memory on the Medieval
vs
- 64 MB memory, or 999 sample slots on the K.O. II.
The KO-1 had a similar "Street Fighter" edition, which could be loaded with the original PO-33 samples.
Are there any reasons not to buy this over the EP-133 from a pure capability standpoint? I wish the marketing were a bit clearer on that front, seems we need to intuit this by diving into the specs and capabilities ourselves.
They were quick to issue a refund, but I would have loved to see them fix the underlying issue and offer us another unit. I'd have the same concerns about this model, since it looks like it uses the same base hardware.
I bought a EP-133 KO II when it first came out but quickly sold it after a few weeks - it wasn't my jam.
https://teenage.engineering/products/field-desk
Looks like a $100 desk for $1,600
More power to them, they created an audience who wants to pay that, but you're not paying for engineering here.
I mean I get it, I would never buy anything from TE either, just like I can't afford a Lamborghini. But I can still look at it and go "Wow, that's really pretty."
And the KO-II series is actually reasonably priced by their standards!
which has seen a little more popularity recently, judging by the number of views this got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP9_XmmmIk0
I just heard their medieval version of "somebody that I used to know" -- https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1aVmjvYTI
The lyrical changes were wonderful.
Hildegard von Blingin' covers Hildegard Von Bingen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9K9PfjRjxM
I bought the '82 vinyl in '82: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Feather_on_the_Breath_of_God
Western music underwent a huge change after medieval times moving from a modal system to a tonal system. Bardcore is tonal music trying to evoke a medieval vibe, and it often succeeds quite well...but it is still far different from what actual medieval music would have sounded like. If you like bardcore but are curious what historically accurate medieval music would have been like, you might enjoy the video.
You can definitely recreate this just by collecting appropriate VSTs and sample libraries, even probably by just loading some "medieval samples" to some groovebox.
But if I got this second hand on cheap price I would definitely make some fun with it even if it has somewhat cryptic labels.
This is true for basically all electronic music hardware available today and in the past. I guess what we really pay for when buying these type of hardware is what's missing rather than what's included, and the constraints that helps you focus on actual music making.
Is there any functional difference to the EP-133? Interestingly It seems that they have different operating systems.
I'll get it when we upgrade Spitfire this year.
While I haven’t had the chance to ride one, I imagine it is the same feeling as riding a joke bike where the headset is geared to invert the sense of the handlebars (left is right, right is left) or using a pair of circlip pliers where squeezing the handles opens the jaws rather than closing them.
Alas, Teenage Engineering really set themselves a high bar with the OP-1 and I still don’t think they’ve ever come close to it. The OP-Z just didn’t compete without a screen, the pocket operators (and the K.O. II and Medieval, which have the same interface) have a much less intuitive design language, their IKEA lights are controlled by colour coded, identically shaped controls on the back, etc.
They are all lovely products at good price points that do their jobs delightfully but when they came from the same studio as the OP-1 it is like comparing a Pininfarina Peugeot 205 with a Pininfarina Ferrari 250.
I was kind of curious about this since in the medieval era, equal temperament wasn't used very much. But it just allows retuning to major/minor and modes in equal temperament, as far as I can tell. Would be an excellent device for medieval music if it could be tuned to meantone, Pythagorean and so on!
- Equal Temperament
- Major (Ionian)
- Minor (Aeolian)
- Dorian
- Phrygian
- Lydian
- Mixolydian
- Locrian
- Major Pentatonic
- Minor Pentatonic
What would be interesting with this synth (something other synths, like my Korg Monologue, can do) is being able to tune to different temperaments, i.e. not 12 TET - for this synth especially, since 12 TET was rarely used in the medieval period in favour of pythagorean or meantone tuning.
But at least the layout follows she Golden Ratio I guess.
I'm pretty sure if I bought one, it would just sit in my cupboard, but I'm looking for an excuse to buy one, has anyone here gotten more use out of one of their gadgets than they expected they would?
https://teenage.engineering/products/po
Good to get your feet wet without breaking your wallet.
Unlike the more expensive products these are harder to work into a computer based work flow. But they are fun.
They have one that has “office sound” samples, which is wierd.
This midieval device looks a bit like a giant more functional pocket operator.
Good entrypoint is the Novation Circuit family of devices. Circuit Rhythm is mainly around sampling and a drum machine, Circuit Tracks a all-in-one groovebox. Both of them are a lot of fun :)
Eventually you'll probably be better served by some Elektron device, still high price point but UX is a lot better/discoverable + lots of features in every single box.
After playing with the PO-33 for a few weeks I quickly reached its limits and bought a groove box (not from TE). Still have the PO-33 lying around, ready to be played by me or guests that find it intriguing.
I still like it but I’m already trying to find something to eventually replace it with. But is there really something out there with similar size, features, and price as the OP-Z? I would like to find something.
So even if you try out LMMS/FL Studio/Ableton/making-music-on-a-computer and don't like it, doesn't mean you don't like making music at all, maybe it's just the wrong workflow for you.
You can't even see the whole device without scrolling.
Even for using it just as a fancy overpriced MIDI input, velocities from pads were way too unpredictable compared to a cheap korg nanosomething.
What is the cheapest way to get a grid of buttons that wires into a laptop (mac if it matters) to play sound effects? My wife is a teacher and would really enjoy hitting a button and getting some dumb sound effect to play. But it's just a lark, so it's not worth too much $ invested.
I had assumed a cheap drum pad + midi, but not 100% sure that makes sense.
If you want a MIDI pad controller, the Korg nanoPAD 2 [1] is $65 new (and often pops up used) and powered entirely off USB. You can then set up Sitala [2] to listen for notes from the pad and drag-and-drop samples onto each note.
If you want keyboard-style keys, the Pimoroni Keybow kit [2] is $57 - there is a bit of assembly, but no soldering.
[1] https://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/nanopad2/
https://www.partsnotincluded.com/diy-stream-deck-mini-macro-...
https://www.yankodesign.com/2022/07/27/teenage-engineering-b...
>This is a fan-made concept and isn’t affiliated with Teenage Engineering
Sure the OP-1 and the PO-400 are cool, but the price of the OP-1 Field is a non-starter and the usability of the K.O II would make lookmumnocomputer cry.
Now… this!?! Who would look at this and say “yes, I need one of these” (I just checked the date to make sure it’s not either April 1st or Halloween)
Maybe they’re really performance artists wanting to hone their industrial design skills in parallel on the side
It is a very common way to present as a consumer in hobby markets, but it has elaborated itself to a great degree in this case because hobbyist musicians aren't surrounded by retired session artists the way, for example, woodworkers are surrounded by retired tradesmen.
I also spent thousands of hours with a MIDI setup on my Amiga when I was in high school, teaching myself how to program the little FM synth my parents bought me for Christmas, and learning the theory of what makes a drum pattern sound good.
I don’t have thousands of hours available anymore. I still want to dabble sometimes though. Those are skills I worked very hard to learn, I enjoy exercising them, and I don’t want them to atrophy. That specific Teenage Engineering device has all the things I want to play with in a single portable box that also manages to be dirt cheap for what all it does.
Some people drive BMWs because they want to be seen driving them. Others drive them because — get this — turns out they’re nice cars to drive. At $300, my EP-133 isn’t exactly the BMW of musical instruments. It still does a hell of a job of scratching my musical itch. I couldn’t care less if anyone else ever sees me playing with it. I hope they never do. I got it for me, to enjoy, to make (bad) music with so I can get songs out of my head and into my ears. Sorry-not-sorry if that’s not “real musician” enough for some. I don’t care. I’m still having fun.
So they do sell to "real" musicians too.
The reason is, they set a standard for useless gimmicks which are far, far too expensive, designed to appeal to style over substance.
The OP1 is one of the most over-rated 'instruments' out there. It has a fancy, expensive OLED, a fancy, expensive casing, and useless gimmicks. The OLED never really shows you anything useful to the act of music-making. This is true of their Pocket Operators as well - its nearly all stylistic whimsy over functionality.
Save yourself the hassle and frustration of using a Teenage Engineering product and either buy the parts and make yourself an LMN3[0], or invest in devices that don't take the piss out of the user, such as the 1010Music Bluebox or Synthstrom Deluge.
The musical-instrument industry is rife with people who want to rip off the punters, who they know for a fact are easily afflicted with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), resulting in customers across the globe who end up stashing their expensive, sexy-looking (but functionally retarded) toys in the drawer after a period of glib usage.
[0] - https://github.com/FundamentalFrequency
[1] - https://1010music.com/
[2] - https://synthstrom.com/
Fortunately, there are other manufacturers who "get it" and make instruments, not toys.
Thou art prone to hyperbole! Said instrument of synthesis ("Operator-1") has a step sequencer, mixer, ADSR envelopes, recorder, and other useful indications for the bard. One ponders how thou hast not consulted the scrolls [1].
[1] https://teenage.engineering/_img/54b7f9bf8681400300255cab_or...
Sure, the OLED occasionally shows you a few things. But its completely useless compared to, say, the utility eked out of the display of the Deluge, or Bluebox. By comparison to either of these devices, the OP1 is unacceptably paltry for the price.
And then, there are the Pocket Operators. Don't get me started on just how useless that very expensive bespoke LCD print is to the musician...
Alas, I do not. :(
The reason I’ve been eyeing hardware is because I spend all my time writing code and drawing pixel art, so it would be nice to have something away from the computer to work with.
[0] Caustic 3 was removed from Google Play unfortunately, you need to download it from alternative sources
So this might still be specially shape mask on top that 10 segment display. But considering that it by itself isn't exactly common (compared to 7 or even 14 and 16 segment displays) I wouldn't be too surprised if they were able to find a factory in china that would make a customized segment led modules in batches of few thousands. At the end of day what are 7 segment displays if not a bunch of LEDs and light guides molded into single plastic case. It wouldn't be cheap but for a premium product with focus on visual design and experience like what the teenage engineer makes it doesn't seem impossible.
As for something more accessible to a hobbyists - people have been experimenting with placing custom cutouts on top of LED displays with quite good looking results. It can be as simple as thin laser cut stencil on top of LED matrix display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLgUtjyKO6Q With thicker 3d printed mask you can even shift the positions of segments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt2merZcuno
I love medieval stuff. They're even being campy/mocky and I don't care I want a medieval synth.
"instrumentalis" and "electronicum" are both adjectives.
(But it's 25 years since I had to read Latin at school.)
I absolutely hate the rounded rectangular buttons within the hard square cut-outs.
i'm not the market, so maybe I just don't know what i'm judging.
https://www.rabbit.tech/newsroom/teenage-engineering-jesper-...
I trusted the product mainly because of their name, it’s hard for me to understand how they didn’t see what the underlying product was when they attached their name to it.
Those of us who despise Teenage Engineering are reacting to a design ethos which devalues the users knowledge and understanding of what they are doing, over whimsical non-sequitur. You're not getting a musical instrument - you're getting a device, which despite itself, can nevertheless be used to make some kind of music.
That's the beauty of music, not the device. You can make music with anything.
So the feeling among those of us who also make musical instruments is that Teenage Engineering are packaging up an inherent feature of music and selling it to people in a fancy way - they don't really care about the music-making features, which are almost secondary to their effort to design aesthetically appealing, moderately functional, expensive toys.
And in that light, it makes complete sense that they would involve themselves in the Rabbit R1. The impression is that Teenage Engineering kind of despise their customers, who they think are dumb, and they therefore invest in non-sequitur aesthetics in lieu of smart design that pushes the industry forward. Teenage Engineering ship exploitation and ridicule - they don't make finely crafted instruments for musicians to hone their skills. Most great musicians who play with an OP1 and make music with it, do so despite the devices' many roadblocks to creativity.
if i can afford an OP-1 without flinching i know that i've made it.
Are sculptures, picture frames, decorative vases and ornamental unused candles unnecessary?
This is maybe half a step above a fart cushion. There’s no need to buy this whatsoever…
However, I do think there is a case to be made for falling into the trap of being more interested in the gear than the thing you're meant to do with the gear.
At the very least, Teenage Engineering hardware is generally very well designed, high quality and built to last. At least this product has some creative spirit behind it. I'm in love with the merge of Medieval and Modern Electronic here!
For an example of excessive consumerism, look no further than the Eurorack[1] space. They don't call it Eurocrack for nothing!
https://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2663265&c...
that is literally the intention behind all modern music hardware (eurorack especially) i think. i've been a producer for nearly 20 years and i've still never seen anybody make genuinely good music with any of these things. not even once.
these 30-40 year old "enthusiast" types getting 17 views on their 28 minute "generative ambient jam #236" videos are basically an unlimited cash cow.
When I want productive music making, with the intention of publishing, a computer with a DAW is the obvious tool for the job. No question. Hands down.
Still, there are absolutely people who publish fun tracks and perform live with this stuff:
https://youtube.com/@teftymeems
https://youtube.com/@espenkraft
https://youtube.com/@elisetrouw
https://youtube.com/@truecuckoo
And that’s just the indie fringe. Chvrches uses hardware synths. The Stranger Things soundtrack includes a critical sequence programmed on a modular sequencer for microtonal control. The Weekend’s Dawn FM video album features a Moog One prominently. Taylor Swift performed with a special edition Prophet 12. Etc etc
Ciani has been a pioneer in this space since the 70’e https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Ciani
Check out the boiler room set of https://caterinabarbieri.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25FTlO42VY
Vogelsinger has pieces all over YouTube. https://helenevogelsinger.bandcamp.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYxheEGl2oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25FTlO42VY
Some others that come to mind: https://polypores.bandcamp.com/
https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/music
Evan B’s label for this music only https://www.behindtheskymusic.com/
Pocket Operators are a great fidget toy but the collecting nature of them all is a bit annoying (saying that as someone who bought a bunch of them and only ever really enjoyed 3 of them: 14, 32 and 33). Useless as music outside of maybe an drum beat to improv over from what I can see though?
Have very little issue with them myself though. Even absurd projects like the Choir are kinda neat to me; toys for rich people to burn money on which may result in other people stealing the good bits and making something better and more accessible.
Think whatever this is is a big misstep after the EP-133 done a good job addressing a bunch of their past issues as a business (albeit with a lot of room to improve)
Of course he's brilliantly talented and became Dorian Concept, to your point.
It's no coincidence that we invented the "enthusiast" or "prosumer" categories precisely to separate certain products from professionals
I think dipplo (a big edm artist) used the OP-1 in his live sets for a while.
So? Why does that matter?
I have a decent second hand Nord Piano 3 .. I certainly can't make good music on it, but I have fun playing it. Sure, with that kind of instrument I'm sure there's plenty of people making great music on it, but does that matter to me? Not really
I'm willing to bet the overwhelming majority of instruments sold are never used to make genuinely good music. People buy them to challenge themselves, to have fun, to learn new things.
Some instruments are more aimed at that kind of usage rather than actually making good music, and I think it's fair to say that Teenage Engineering stuff falls in that category.
I bought a couple of pocket operators at some point. I found it very fun and challenging to work within the constraints of those devices. I would never use any professional music making software because it's just too overwhelming. But with the Pocket Operator I feel motivated to try making some simple jams and have fun with it. It's never going to become anything serious and that's OK.
Have you ever met a guitarist[0], or a golfer? I play guitar, and as a teenager I spent _years_ playing a cheap encore guitar plugged into a no-name 15w amp imaginable with a zoom 505 [1]. I practiced for hours upon and hours and sounded awful. Now as an adult, I get to spend some money on the hobby and sound like what I thought I sounded like aged 15!
[0] - https://www.guitarworld.com/features/gear-acquisition-syndro... [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGKrBrCw-aQ (not me, but representative)
I no longer play, but did get get pretty good. In that case, the tool made the difference (and a buttload of daily practice. I felt I needed to earn the right to play that thing).
But I think everyone knows some rich bastard, that has a handmade bespoke axe, and is absolutely terrible.
[0] https://cmarshall.com/MulletMan.jpg (I still have that guitar, and the neck is still true.)
And it's a good observation about bespoke guitars: I feel like the problem is people trying to go beyond that, with the illusion that "even more expensive" will be even better. Then they start buying things that are hella expensive but don't give much more (due to diminishing returns, or sometimes they actually suck, like bad handmade instruments), or doing things like collecting 20, 30, 40 overdrive pedals just to find the "perfect one".
Also, I love the sound of a good crunchy 15w practise amp. I think one day those old zoom pedals and the Line 6 bean will be highly coveted!
Is that such a bad thing? It’s supposed to be a hobby, if geeking out on gear relaxes you you shouldn’t have to feel bad for not being productive with it.
The fact that there are tons of consumers like me makes this gear more affordable for everyone, including low level artists.
I get a bunch of satisfaction purchasing used high end gear, owning it for a few months and then selling it for more or less what I bought it for. I usually get some nice social interaction with the seller/buyer as a bonus.
I was amazed and aghast at the amount of expensive "outboard" gear and other vintage hardware such as "compressors", "filter banks", "levelling amplifiers", Korg PS-3100, a vintage analog synthesizer which costs more than 20,000 (!) euros,tape recorders, etc.
Many of these things I didn't even know existed. But I'm just a newbie to learning music.
It's a privileged position to be in, to just acquire whatever vintage hardware, instead of resorting to emulated software to create the sounds.
At least, he (and others like Nils Frahm) can justify it, as a highly successful professional musicians. But many hobbyist musicians seem to fall into the trap of, "if only I get that Roland Juno-60, I'll make more awesome music".
But you might! A new instrument can inspire you and make you want to play more music and that can lead to improvement.
All things considered, the Medieval isn't all that expensive. All you are really risking is approx. $100 if buying new (because you can resell on eBay) and practically nothing if you buy it used.
I was not referring to the "Medieval" in specific, but just lamenting about losing the forest for the trees. It's a bit like the monthly, "the perfect note-taking tool" discussion cycle we get into here on HN.
If you're conscious of the potential gear trap, more power to you. :-)
How the hell do you replicate your sounds between performances, recordings, etc.
This must be the musical equivalent of people sending eachother zip files with source code instead of using git, lol.
EDIT: don't get me wrong, not dissing the approach! It looks glorious and I wish I could play with one once..!
Or, some do improvised live patching, in which the goal is NOT to replicate sounds.
Seems complicated, indeed.
Still, most of the time you find something incredible and it's gone as quickly as it appeared!
You can sample certain sounds and perform with that instead.
You can patch it once and never touch again.
You can learn how to patch it exactly the same, even with 100s of cables.
You can keep parts of the patch the same. Some modules can help, saving their internal state or communicating with other modules on their own.
Etc.
But the realist and the person in my who doesn't like spending money both agree: If $350 - $500 are on the table, I'm probably better off with a good keyboard with MIDI support, since it's a more open-ended and flexible tool. And my DAW can do a lot of the looping, looped recording, effects and such.
But enough negativity, this thing still looks really, really cool.
Besides, Eurorack is even more dangerous when it comes to GAS.