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Comment by Sad90sNerd | Hacker News Reader

I don't understand why people are so eager to give up autonomy. I doubt the software is certified in any meaningful way (see DO-178B), the algorithms are unknown, and the NHTSA sits on its hands whenever these vehicles have accidents.

Here is a litmus test: would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children? I know I certainly will never allow my family or myself to get into a metal box going 80 mph without a driver.

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Show me the statistics. If there is data which shows that autonomous vehicles are significantly safer than than the 90th percentile driver, then I absolutely will put my children in it. In fact, it might be irresponsible for me not to.

School buses are an interesting case because they drive fixed routes, so you can imagine some intense mapping and route planning process which makes them even safer than a normal autonomous vehicle. They could also afford to have a larger number of higher quality sensors.

One of the last times I took a taxi, the taxi driver explained at length how he worked extra shifts so he could afford to buy meth which he would take in order to work more shifts which allowed him to buy even more meth which he would take in order to work more shifts etc.

I won't be the first in line to take Waymo on a freeway but at some point the results will speak for themselves.

This is a good point. Life is full of risks and challenges, but I guess in my case I choose to trust in humanity in cases like these... god knows Ive seen enough production software in my life to be skeptical for two.

> I won't be the first in line to take Waymo on a freeway but at some point the results will speak for themselves.

Indeed - lets hope we do get to actually see the numbers in due time.

> Here is a litmus test: would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children?

Waymo's obey all traffic laws and never drive tired, drunk, or distracted.

I had a Lyft driver who nodded off several times during a ride to the point we had him leave us at the nearest corner as soon as it was safe. It was genuinely scary.

I messaged Lyft and they really didn't seem to take it seriously or care. They of course worded it in a way to avoid any potential legal problems, and I doubt anything came of it. That driver should not be on the road.

There have been several other less notable incidents where I was worried for my safety.

I'm here for the robotaxis

Assuming the children are still supervised by an adult, I don't see the issue. As a rider, Waymo generally feels safer than a human driver.

>> As a rider, Waymo generally feels safer than a human driver.

This was my experience too.

Way more smooth and smart about its SF driving than for instance, my elderly parents. It manages to be assertive without being aggressive.

Does your family ride roller coasters, is that not giving up your autonomy? Waymo has done enough rides to have statistically significant risk data, and they are very safe and SF strikes me as hard a city to drive in as almost anywhere with all the rain fog pedestrians traffic, and weird routes and elevation changes.

Automotive has a similar standard called ISO 26262. ISO-26262-6 is closest to DO-178B, though ISO-21448 is also highly relevant. Both are widely used throughout the industry, including Waymo. The norm in the US is self-certification. European homologation generally requires third party certification, and Waymo is almost certainly in that process right now, as part of their discussions with European regulators.

> would you allow Waymo to drive schoolbuses with your children? I

Yes, obviously. Humans are provably more dangerous.

Aren’t many/most airline flights auto-landed? (Certainly autopiloted.)

Does that bother you?

They also have two highly trained proffessionals ready to take control and tight SoPs for everything.

Avionics software has a much more stringent and regulated software process (and pilots still there just in case). Are you advocating the same for cars?

It does actually, my father was a pilot for Delta and he saw the automation come thru and there are horror stories there too.

On top of this, the software quality is certified, built over decades, and continuously tested on each plane regularly - and of course the pilots are still there ; )

think of the children!

think of yourself! the point of the analogy is to replace yourself (which you might not regard if you are a risk taker) with someone you care about.

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