Hacker News Reader

Comment by lr4444lr | Hacker News Reader

How long are people really supposed to hang out at a corner cafe, bakery, or store? Don't these businesses want turnover? Libraries, rec centers, churches, parks, dance halls, and bars are where people are expected to spend time. Also, although I see little direct of screen time in the full report, large TVs, huge customizable option set, everything streaming on-demand, online shopping, immersive games, addictive internet behavior, etc., it does suggest these are at play, and could account for the hour and forty minutes lost.

View on HN

> How long are people really supposed to hang out at a corner cafe, bakery, or store? Don't these businesses want turnover?

Before modern Starbucks popularized a hostile environment, it was common to work for half a day in a coffee shop.

They tended to be a lot bigger, have more and more comfortable furniture, and were fine if you quietly worked away and bought a coffee / snack every now and then.

But Starbucks ~05 to now is basically a microcosm of the ways America went awry.

> it was common to work for half a day in a coffee shop.

It was always unfair to expect a coffee shop to operate an office for the price of the profit margin on 3 coffees, a sandwich and a muffin.

Most coffee shops and restaurant were empty 3/4th of the day before people brought laptops you’d see people playing chess or reading books in these spaces. Laptops really mess with this business model because they don’t want to leave as they get busy.

On the plus side, people who don't leave order multiple drinks and the overpriced food, people working tend to like keeping the caffeine buzz going, and for every customer who settles in with a laptop or a book there will be many more who take their coffee out or just use the drive thru and never step inside. The mix of customer types is what makes it possible to keep a coffee shop open.

>But Starbucks ~05 to now is basically a microcosm of the ways America went awry.

sad.

someone should write a well researched book with that title: the ways America went awry.

A beloved product, IPO'd or purchased by professional PE, invariably becomes worse as the new owners realize love can be exchanged for a worse experience and more profitable enterprise.

If you want to build something and have it stay good, never expose it to the harsh light of economic min/maxing.

Tragedy of the commons. A coffee shop near me started sweeping people out after an hour because almost every table and chair was taken by individual people on laptops for hours at a time. It’s unfair to people like me who want a quick cup with someone.

Does that means that kicking people out after an hour is unfair to people who want to have a long cup with someone? I don't really see it as a question of fairness.

Not every business has to cater to everyone's preference. I suspect that they started shooing people because they found (or at least suspected) that kicking out your customers made them more money. The laptop people will just find somewhere else to get their coffee.

The best coffee shops I been to have multiple spaces set aside for people with different needs, including busy main areas and out of the way quiet areas, a mix of small and long tables plus chairs and couches, books/board games/pool tables available, conference/gaming rooms, etc.

I've seen coffee shops like that get so popular that they required a cover charge on Friday nights and weekends. You're not likely to find those kinds of spaces on every other street corner like a Starbucks but the versatility is really nice.

Set WiFi to expire after 60 minutes, maybe that helps?

Weird, it seems to me the exact opposite is true. More and more people are spending longer periods in coffee shops and treating them as offices.

What about hanging out in your front yard? Corner bakeries, cafes, etc give you a place to go with your friend, not necesarily a place to lounge (although some are okay with that too). Lots of people don't care and like the crowd because it makes it seem popular. Very common with little coffee shops. For our local shop, I know the owner and the family, and while I wouldn't presume to go in there and not order anything, I also doubt they'd really care if I didn't continuously order.

Bakery and store is where you go to buy stuff and occasionally meet neighborhoods. Cafe is like a bar really, most can function as cafe during the day and you get beer in the evening. I have to say, library in my city was always a silent space. You could have smaller churn meetups in city neighborhood tho.

Bars, dancing halls, rec centers and cafes makes more sense in the walking distance rather then somewhere where you go by car.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com