Comment by 55555 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 55555 | Hacker News Reader

There's no reason to use Sonos anymore. When Sonos came out, I bought them because 1) I wasn't sure which speakers were good, and 2) Sonos would allow me to have a multi-room audio setup. Regarding #1, it turns out that speaker technology doesn't seem to advance much. Many audiophiles seem happy to buy literally 30 year old speakers. The Sonos Play 5 has not changed it's speaker internals significantly since 2014 IIRC. Regarding #2, Airplay 2 means that you can just buy any airplay 2 enabled speakers and use Apple Music or Spotify or your iPhone to cast to all of them at the same time (sync'd) and set varying volume levels.

Meanwhile, Sonos requires you to login to their server with your real identity or your speakers are bricked. And they have the worst apps ever. I've wasted a lot of time trying to get them working.

If I may rant on a more macro level, to pump their company valuation, Sonos and many other brands (Phillips Hue, for example) want you to have an account, to use their software, etc. But I don't want to have to have an account or use an app to use my lightbulbs or play music from my speakers. I don't want to maintain a relationship with the manufacturer of my floor tiles or plastic spatula either. Just make your thing work and get out of the way. The best service in areas where customers do not want a relationship -- which is almost all of them -- is to be invisible.

I have a Phillips Hue and they now want to force me to create an account - for security reasons.

I don’t know if this sounds as insane to you as it does to me - but a device that does nothing else but emit coloured light needs a frickin account for SECURITY reasons?

Of course I know the real reason is to extract all kinds of data from me but man if this ain’t done Brave New World shit I don’t know.

> but a device that does nothing else but emit coloured light needs a frickin account for SECURITY reasons?

You're vastly underselling Hue. You have automations (such as waking you up with a sunrise, simulating presence, etc), integrations (sync from PC, TV, good local API that can be used by various home automation systems) and importantly, remote access.

The last part can't work securely without an account, and accounts also allow you to have access controls (this user can only control lights, but not any of the more advanced settings, because you know your roommate/spouse/kids shouldn't be touching that).

The whole thing has been wildly overblown.

Most of that, including remote access, comes from HomeKit or Google Home.

I don’t want an expensive bridge or a Hue account or another app or another way to setup automations or anything else. Just sell me smart bulbs goddamit.

> Most of that, including remote access, comes from HomeKit or Google Home

Assuming you've bought into those ecosystems. I haven't, and use Hue directly and via Home Assistant. I don't intend to add other cloud services

> I don’t want an expensive bridge or a Hue account or another app or another way to setup automations or anything else. Just sell me smart bulbs goddamit

Then buy from another vendor that only sells smart bulbs and you have to DIY the rest? It's like complaining your Rolls-Royce comes with too many features such as TVs and umbrellas in the doors, while you just want a working car with 4 wheels - go buy a Ford Fiesta then.

> It's like complaining your Rolls-Royce comes with too many features such as TVs and umbrellas in the doors, while you just want a working car with 4 wheels - go buy a Ford Fiesta then.

But they are not selling a Rolls Royce: they are selling idiots a ford fiesta they’ve replaced the physical key with a cloud-based, vendor locked smartphone app, whilst calling that a unique selling point which justifies the rolls Royce price tag.

Whilst generating a lot e-waste in the process.

To be clear, my issue is not with them offering this as a part of their product for those with no alternative, but instead with forcing it on those that do.

> Whilst generating a lot e-waste in the process

What's the e-waste? Everything they have ever made is still supported, and I personally have bulbs working fine for 10+ years.

> But they are not selling a Rolls Royce: they are selling idiots a ford fiesta they’ve replaced the physical key with a cloud-based, vendor locked smartphone app, whilst calling that a unique selling point which justifies the rolls Royce price tag.

No, they're selling a premium product. High prices, best features (including highest luminosity smart bulbs on the market), lots of good integrations, good UX.

> To be clear, my issue is not with them offering this as a part of their product for those with no alternative, but instead with forcing it on those that do

They aren't even forcing the hub. You can connect their bulbs to any compatible Zigbee / Bluetooth system and work with it.

It's pretty simple: in order to control your devices in the same manner as most other smart devices (Matter), you need to spend ~40 pounds on a bespoke Hue bridge, use their app, are forced to sign up for an account, and need to ensure the bridge is always powered on.

That's unlike every other smart device - and it's obvious why: selling a basic Zigbee->Matter bridge with a Hue logo on it at a 40x markup is a great revenue source, they get to insert themselves into your home and siphon up analytics, and they don't even have to spend any money adding Matter support to their bulbs. All to provide generic, basic and out-of-the-box functionality that you already have if you use Homekit or Google Home.

Fantastic! And fantasticly wasteful.

You are aware that the Hue ecosystem predates Matter, and Google Home for that matter, and probably HomeKit, by at least a decade, right? And that all recent (at least 5 years) bulbs don't require a bridge, right?

https://www.philips-hue.com/en-gb/explore-hue/works-with/mat...

> Do I need a Philips Hue Bridge to connect my devices via Matter?

> Yes. A Philips Hue Bridge, the smart lighting hub for the Philips Hue system, enables Matter for all your Hue products

Aka: you need to buy a hub from us.

> With Bluetooth control, you’re limited to only being able to operate your smart lights within Bluetooth range – about 10 metres

Damn, ford fiesta keys have a longe range than that :)

It’s a shameless excuse to sell an extra product, which is why they haven’t added matter support to their bulbs natively like every other smart bulb maker, and I’m not sure why you’re so keen on this not being the case.

You're still missing the fact that the Hue ecosystem and Hub predate Matter, HomeKit, Google Home by more than a decade. Can their bulbs even be made compatible with Matter, physically or are they lacking hardware pieces?

> Just sell me smart bulbs goddamit.

I mean, you can buy the bulbs and connect them to any zigbee bridge, right?

Yes, you can. They even have Bluetooth bulbs, and so do an array of other vendors.

No, the whole thing has not been overblown; you are of course correct that remote access needs accounts, and perhaps there are valid usecases for accounts locally, but requiring accounts for local access is absolutely not reasonable.

If you only have ZigBee stuff (which Hue mostly is), you can use Home Assistant with ZHA and get full local-only control. There are other systems, but I use that. Flawless control, never even installed the Hue app.

I deliberately avoid WiFi devices as these often demand WAN access for registration, control. Matter often seems like the worst of both worlds but we'll see.

I went to Sonos because I had invested in some Airplay speakers and they just didn't work correctly even though I have an 100% Apple eco-system. Once I went to Sonos, it just worked.

What is the alternative for a networked speaker system that “just works”? And I don’t mean “just works most of the time” I mean really just works out of the box for my non-tech brother and in-laws?

I’d been having problems with Sonos and Spotify for a year or two: Playing a song on Spotify takes 3 tries and about 25 seconds. Always. Playing from Tidal is faster (~5 seconds wait and no retries needed)

I bought a WiimAmp and bookshelf speakers. The software is good but not perfect. It has Spotify and Tidal connect, so you use those apps directly. Which is great as they have much better search and general UX.

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