To me it's a good tradeoff, of course I wouldn't use Telegram for anything illegal or suspect.
To me it's a good tradeoff, of course I wouldn't use Telegram for anything illegal or suspect.
Besides Slack and Discord and Teams and whatever the heck Google has these days and iMessage and...
I think you mean it's the only messaging app that purports to have a focus on security where messages are stored in the cloud, which is true, but also sus. There's a reason why none of the others are doing it that way, and Telegram isn't really claiming to have solved a technical hurdle that the E2E apps didn't, it's just claiming that you can trust them more than you can trust the major messaging apps.
Maybe you can and maybe you can't, the point is that you can't know that they're actually a safer choice than any of the other cloud providers.
All the cool kids in the block eliminated the need to trust the provider decades ago. PGP: 33 years ago, OTR 20 years ago, Signal 14 years ago.
Signal evangelicalism needs to halt, you mean the Whisper protocol.
Having a single client gives you insane boost to security agility over decentralized alternatives.
Feel free to strive towards functional decentralized ecosystem that feels as good to use, then switching will be a no-brainer.
That said, what I would love to see ( and likely won't at this point ) is the world where pidgin could exist again, because everyone is using some form of sensible standards that could be used.. right now it is mostly proprietary secret mess of things.
And don't get me started on convincing anyone in group to moving from one ecosystem to another. Fuck, I just want email for chat that is not owned by one org.. Is it really so much to ask ( it is rhetorical, I know the hurdles are there and only some deal with human nature )?
You always forgot to enable OTR even if it was right there in front of you. You couldn't use it cross-device, and its 1536-bit DH got outdated without fixes. There's stuff like lurch that offer OMEMO but still, I really prefer that I don't have to think about key management anymore. With Signal things just work, and it's magical.
So, yes, trust is needed.
Granted it can be clunky at times, but the properties are there and decentralised end to end encrypted messaging is quite and incredible thing. (Yes, Matrix nerds, it's not messaging per se it's really state replication, I know :))
Worse, iPhones immediately start backing up to iCloud when set up for a new user - the only way to keep your network passwords and all manner of other stuff from hitting iCloud servers is to set the phone up with no network connection or even a SIM card installed.
Did I mention there's no longer a SIM slot, so you can't even control that?
And that iPhones by default if they detect a 'weak' wifi network will switch to cellular, so you can't connect the phone to a sandboxed wifi network?
You shouldn't have to put your phone in a faraday cage to keep it from uploading plaintext versions of your private communications and network passwords.
Oh, you meant... oh.
I thought MDM was only for enterprise businesses and schools and universities, but I may very well be mistaken about that.
https://support.apple.com/guide/apple-configurator-mac/welco...
If you're threat actor has the resource to break that, get a CC or a good lawyer on retainer I guess.
No way to add a WiFi profile, thus no way to use an iPhone as a remote. No ethernet available either.
Configured a WiFi profile, uploaded to the Apple TV and could finalize the setup.
It’s quite a powerful too for initial setup.
After an MDM profile is created by someone technical, it can be emailed to the non-technical user and installed with a few clicks and passcode confirmation.
There is no crime in implementing or not of different encryption schemes.
right on their front page in giant font they declare “private” and “secure” when they’re neither. it’s telegram’s own fault they receive this criticism repeatedly—and they strangely constantly complain every time they’re publicly spanked and taken to task. theyre heavily insinuating (i call it it lying) to their users and then over and over crying because they get called out.
if they don’t want to be called out then they should quit insinuating those things, it’s dangerous af. they know they’re lying though, obviously they won’t stop. but omg i wish their users would run fast and run far—it’s like watching an abused person who keeps going back to their abusive partner “oh they mean well”… pffft, no, they really dont.
Are these stored encrypted or in the clear? If the latter, please cite your source.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
The default for many categories is that your keys are in iCloud so Apple can recover them for you. With Advanced turned on, the keys are only on your personal devices. A few categories, like the keychain, are always only on your devices.
Specifically, see Note 3: "If you use both iCloud Backup and Messages in iCloud, your backup includes a copy of the Messages in iCloud encryption key to help you recover your data." Under normal protection, Apple has the key to your backups, but with Advanced they don't.
Yet, Apple tries to create an image that iPhone is a "secure" device, but if you use iCloud, they can give your contact list to government any time they want.
Apple by default doesn't use E2E for cloud backups, and Telegram doesn't use E2E for chats by default. So Telegram has comparable level of security to that of the leaders of the industry.
But it still gets big.
So it's not as much as trade-off, as it is half-assed security design.
Yeah, it's a bit of a joke.
* I'm being serious, Nikolai Durov's PhD dissertation title was "New Approach to Arakelov Geometry"
https://bonndoc.ulb.uni-bonn.de/xmlui/handle/20.500.11811/31...
It's not enough you know how to design a cipher that is actually secure, you need to know how to implement it so that the calculator you run it on consumes exactly the right amount of time, and in some cases power, per operation.
Then you need to know how to use the primitives together, their modes of operation, and then you get to business, designing protocols. And 10% of your code is calling the libraries that handle all that stuff above, 90% is key management.
There's a good amount of misuse resistant libraries available, but Nikolai was too proud to not look into how the experts do this, and he failed even with trivial stuff: He went with SHA-1 instead of SHA-256. He didn't implement proper fingerprints. His protocol wasn't IND-CCA secure. He went with weird AES-IGE instead of AES-GCM which is best practice. He used the weird nonces with the FF-DH, instead of going with more robust stuff like x25519.
One thing you learn early in academia, is that expertise is very narrow. I bet he knows a lot about geometry. Maybe even quite a bit about math in general. But it's clear he doesn't know enough to design cryptographic protocols. The cobbler should have stuck to his last.
EDIT, to add, the real work with cryptographic protocols starts with designing everyday things that seem easy on the paper, with cryptographic assurance. Take group management that the server isn't controlling.
For Telegram it's a few boolean flags for admin status and then it's down to writing the code that removes the user from the group and prevents them from fetching group's messages.
For Signal it's a 58 page whitepaper on the design of how that is done properly https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/1416.pdf
This is ultimately what separates the good from the bad, figuring out how to accomplish things with cryptography that first seem almost impossible to do.
Is "grep" not snappy enough for you?
And if you just run client on device without a lot of this history cached search wouldn't be anywhere as fast as you expect. So I pretty sure there no server-side magic there, but instead very good UX.
Also I can tell for certain that with right index grepping tons of JSONs can be very effective on any modern devices.
But to run local search you need to download the conversations to device first which might require lot of (expensive) traffic.
I basically participate in hundreds of chats and message history doesn't take 10 of GBs. And I also know that search in history of such chats isn't so snappy on older Android phone.
Unreal. Please share how you came to this world view.
Wrong, Matrix does it too, but fully e2ee.
> and allows you to access your chats from any device.
No it doesn't, because it is possible withh e2ee as well
Instagram. FB Messenger. Skype. LINE. KakaoTalk. Discord. Slack. Teams. iMessage.
So do all the others with the exception of something like IRC.
Of course you can send your backup to Google for WhatsApp and signal but that's optional. You can keep it locally too. And it's encrypted too. With WhatsApp you can even choose to keep the key locally only.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...