Comment by mattmanser | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mattmanser | Hacker News Reader

This seems light on facts and thick on anecdotes, not sure why this is getting upvoted.

This could be about Chess, audio-video club, Warhammer or D&D, any subject that attracts males of a certain inclination that make up for their woeful lack of skills in other areas by boasting their encyclopaedic and often ultimately wisdomless knowledge of an area that they have little actual experience in.

This reminds me of walking into a Games Workshop when I was in my late 20s for a trip down memory lane and getting accosted by an extremely social awkward 16 year old who harangued me for having a terrible army, even though I'd not played for 8 or 9 years!

My advice to the author. That's life, stop lamenting it. These people didn't get on the sports team, they didn't get a girlfriend at 14, they really are struggling to find themselves and they're struggling in so many other areas, so let them revel in their actual skills for god's sake and grow up and accept it, even if they can't. Because emotionally you're so much older than they are.

I am getting a little annoyed with the 'women in tech' meme, we can't all be rounded individuals at 18 because society, almost deliberately, is failing a large section of males. If this is making tech a male dominated arena then so be it. It is refreshingly simple and without the emotional nuance that many young males find hard to comprehend, IF this THEN that. Our society brought it on ourselves.

Men are different to women. Women are different to men. What you are describing in this article, almost heart breakingly, is many a male geeks first steps into a social world. To expect them to be able to function as effectively as you with other people is wrong. They can't yet. Some of them will flower. But that's just how men work.

But you seem to want to emasculate them all.

But you seem to want to emasculate them all.

That is totally out of line. It breaks every standard of civility we're supposed to be keeping here. I feel ashamed for HN.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but your comments frequently come across as abrasive. An occasional bite is one thing, but with you the needle always seems to be fluctuating into the red. I usually try reading what you have to say because you seem smart enough, but then this nastiness comes out and it's a drag.

But "you seem to want to emasculate them all" is on another level entirely, so mean and so rude it's like a parody.

I certainly didn't mean it like that, it was meant as a melancholic line rather than an attacking one.

1) There is data to back that lack of confidence is part of the reason for fewer women in CS.

2) It is a reasonable (though untested) hypothesis that the behavior associated with "technical entitlement" exacerbates the problem. Therefore this is an issue that needs to be considered

3) Telling teenagers on either side to change isn't going to fix the issue. You suggest that women in tech change, TFA suggests that men in tech change. Neither is useful.

1) What I'm saying is bluntly this, so what? Males are characterized by an over abundance of confidence, would you brow beat them all to being meek? This is exactly the emasculation I mentioned above.

2) I still don't even know what the hell "technical entitlement" is? I think you actually mean over-confidence. See 1.

3) I'm simply saying accept it. Moaning about it is like a man moaning about a woman turning up late to a date. Or even not at all. If you are capable of changing that bizarre female behaviour, you're welcome to fix this bizarre male behaviour too. This isn't about teenagers, this is about fundamental gender differences.

I don't think being an asshole is inherent to either men or women. Similarly, both men and women are capable of being kind.

You might want to try it some time--it's not so bad!

American males are characterized by an overabundance of confidence. Other cultures discourage self-expression in this fashion without any "emasculation."

This isn't about fundamental gender differences, it is about a subculture's expression of dominance and cultural norms, and it is exactly the kind of thing that us older geeks should be imparting to younger geeks.

Apart from watching foreign cinema, which pretty much shows men are men throughout the known world, I've personally met a large cross-section of men from different cultures, albeit mainly western, none of whom particularly differ when it comes to bravado or over-confidence, especially in adolescence.

And many of other countries that I haven't met haven't even gone through female emancipation, I have no doubt the vast number of countries like that are far worse.

I just don't agree with you. And again, I've had to say it before this week, I'm not American and have never even been there. I've only met a couple of Americans in passing and they were all female or mormons. Mormons get a little special category of their own, those two were very strange.

1) This is a false dilemma. There are probably many ways to improve gender-disparity in tech without emasculating men

2) I agree it's a shitty term, but it's from the article we are discussing, so I used it. Sure I'm happy talking about overconfidence

3) I choose not to accept a status-quo where there is clearly strong discouragement to a large fraction of the population from entering into a field in which we can use all the talent we can get. I'm not trying to "fix" either side here, as that is untenable. I'm trying to come up with an environment in which those differences don't cause the undesirable outcome we now have.

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