HHKB and Realforce – Mechanical Programming and Gaming Keyboards | Hacker News Reader

HHKB and Realforce – Mechanical Programming and Gaming Keyboards

hhkeyboard.us

7 pointsjanandonly21 comments

The HHKB variants can be nice keyboards, but they're definitely not for everyone. I have a Leopold FC660C that has the same silenced Topre switches as some of the HHKB variants and they're really nice, but the boards that come with them quite expensive for what they provide. The HHKB layout can also be a bit annoying to get used to too, which is why I use the FC660C, since it has arrow keys.

In practice I find modern custom keyboards to have higher upside than Topre keyboards, since you can build one with your preferred layout and switches. If you get a QMK enabled board you can also fully customize the functionality of the keyboard, which I find immensely useful. Unless you specifically want a 60% keyboard with light tactile switches I wouldn't recommend an HHKB, but if that's what you want it's hard to do better.

I've been using an ErgoDox EZ for quite a while now. I will simply never go back to using a non-QMK keyboard.

Agreed. I like my Leopold FC660C too but the Topre switches can’t don’t even come close to today’s quiet/lubricated mechanical switches. My custom Python M60 board feels significantly better to type on and is far quieter than the Topre switch board. The Topre switches feel like cheap junk by comparison. I used it for years, but there has just been so much development in this area lately, the Topre switches are outclassed.

On QMK, I disagree. The QMK Bluetooth/USB support still kinda sucks in every recent board I’ve tried, and you can get most of the best QMK functionality on any keyboard using Karabiner anyway.

HHKBs themselves are great but for me the main point of attraction is the layout. It takes a bit to get used to, but it works very well for me. Especially on macOS with its system wide text nav key shortcuts, it allows just about everything larger boards do while requiring significantly less hand movement. No home/end cluster or numpad either pushing the alpha cluster way off center or pushing the right-hand mousing area way out is nice too.

I just wish laptops had that layout as an option. It’d be particularly nice on ultralights like the ThinkPad X1 Nano or discontinued 12” MacBook.

One unique aspect of HHKB keyboards(except Studio) is that they don't use independent key switches used by most of its followers, because it was designed as just a keyboard by existing computer manufacturer(PFU under Fujitsu) unlike its followers.

The differences are subtle, but HHKB feels neater than most of its competitors to me, and I think all-integral design is the reason why - key spacing, stroke, overall packaging are ever so slightly better.

Too bad that there is no justification for anyone to do Lite models anymore. Lite2 was all I needed. It even sounds like HHKB over calls at ~1/8th price.

What do you mean by independent switches? Like it’s vertically integrated manufacturing, or are you saying there’s a mechanical / engineering difference in how the components fit together in the board?

I meant to say Cherry MX style keyswitches. Most fancy keyboards after HHKB are built using those pop-in self contained switches. That's just a feature to users, but also the only way well-intentioned fly-by-night keyboard brands could work.

Cherry didn't invent hotswap, and the MX switch predates the first mainstream hotswap boards by a few decades.

And lots of low volume POS keyboards used those switches. My point is HHKBs aren't based on it.

I’m still confused what the distinction is. What is “self contained” mean?

I've used a HHKB as my main keyboard for nearly 15 years and can't imagine myself switching. It just works so well and is still a joy to type on.

I'm looking forward to getting a Framework laptop so I can remap the keys and finally have a single consistent layout for everything.

I love my HHKB, but I'd never recommend it for gaming, that's just silly.

It's likely referring to the Realforce keyboards, notice the title says "HHKB _and_ Realforce", then "Mechanical Programming _and_ Gaming Keyboards", respectively.

The layout isn't the problem (or at least not just), I'd just never recommend Topre for gaming.

Why not?

They don't actuate very rapidly, and they take quite a bit to reset. Probably fine for casual gaming, but I wouldn't try A-D strafing with them.

IMO, intensive keyboard games should be played with left hand auxiliary keypads, any WSAD is silly. It should be Razer Tartarus or Azeron Cyborg or whichever the current option.

Ugh. These are rarely as good as real keyboard in my experience, and they take up space on your desk. I play competitively and I still have never found a use for these - real keyboards all the way IMO.

How come people make fancy expensive keyboards for enthusiasts without aligned columns?

Different designs for different preferences. HHKB is quite classic, it’s been around since the 90s and is just refining and refining the original design.

I can’t go back to staggered or flat keyboards since switching to Kinesis Advantage 10 years ago. These days I’m rocking a Glove80 since the Advantage360 Bluetooth version is so buggy.

Still I wish there were options in my preferred form factor that are as nicely built as the HHKB. So I like to appreciate the aesthetics and craft even if I’d never use it personally.

HHKBs are "Sun Type 4 LTS Core", legacy is feature. TrackPoint and swappable keys added in Studio is perhaps analogous to systemd in Debian.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com