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Comment by balloot | Hacker News Reader

But the motivation given is to beat the people around you. Which in many cases does not help the company as a whole. It also puts a damper on team coordination.

Nobody here is suggesting a total lack of merit pay. We're just saying that it is awful to assume that in any small group in an organization there is always someone who deserves to be fired, and someone who deserves a big bump, etc.

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I wonder if the following would work: company is divided into small to mid-sized teams. Say 5 to 30 people. Each team has to do something that results in profit. More profit from a team implies larger raises and bonuses for that team. There's a catch: if the company as a whole doesn't meet a certain profit goal then no teams receive raises or bonuses. It seems like this structure encourages teammates to cooperate with each other in the "we all succeed or fail together" theme. Also there's some incentive for team A to ensure team B is successful since team B's failure could bring the entire company down. The psychological implications could be interesting. Seems like there's a snowball effect: n successful teams => team n+1 will probably be successful. This effect probably works in reverse: n lousy teams could imply that team n+1 is highly unlikely to succeed.

>>There's a catch: if the company as a whole doesn't meet a certain profit goal then no teams receive raises or bonuses.

No this will be a disaster, Expect severe attrition in such a company. No one wants to work and then not get paid, just because you missed the mark by a meager x%.

>>It seems like this structure encourages teammates to cooperate with each other in the "we all succeed or fail together" theme

Read this as, we all succeed or go and work elsewhere.

To be clear employees are still paid their salaries when the company doesn't meet its quota or mark. Just the bonuses and raises are held back. Either way I think you're right about high attrition rates.

I'm no management guru but I can see a couple of major problems:

(1) Some teams are necessary but won't make a direct profit, eg. internal IT, customer service.

(2) It could encourage a team to make a profit at the expense of another team; eg. the Office team might release a buggy product quickly (maximizing their profit by not testing it) knowing that the customer service team are the ones who'll suffer a loss supporting it.

Good points. Some creativity is in order when it comes to structuring the teams. For example the Office team could be responsible for customer support themselves! I'm only half joking. Think about the incentive that creates for making an intuitive and easy-to-use product.

I have lots of criticisms of a stack type of system. It should be reset more than once per year, should be light hearted, and one big part of it should be being a team player, etc.

My point is just that it's easy to have the whole team become fairly complacent and start focusing on other activities. Do you want your star team member spending all her time collaborating on a non-business-relevant fun project, or pouring that energy into work stuff to earn the $50K bonus.

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