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Comment by eagleinparadise | Hacker News Reader

I'm approaching midlife and noticing the quality of my sleep has declined. I can't sleep in anymore. Sometimes I'm waking up in the middle of the night occasionally and something I'm wide awake because I'm thinking about work or something like that. Very frustrating.

Another reminder to try to pull myself away from the screens late at night.

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I've also found it's hard to sleep in, I recommend going to sleep sooner. It's like I'm hardwired to wake up at a certain time, the only thing I can control is when I go to bed.

Yeah, same here. I'll wake up at noon, no matter what time I go to bed. If I go to bed at 2, I'll have ten hours of sleep, if at 6... You get the idea.

Now all I need is to have fewer interesting hobbies and builds at night.

what works for me in this case is to pop in a single ear bud and turn on an audio book I've already listened to.

because there is a narrative, it shuts down rumination. because there's nothing novel, my brain is quite happy to drift off to escape the tedium.

My god, this is not only exactly what I've done for years, but you described it in exactly the same way I describe it when telling people about it, almost word for word.

Have you tried afternoon naps to compensate? I remember reading this theory a while back that we sort of naturally switch to a different sleeping cycle over the course of our lives, where older people tend to stay awake at night and sleep during the day as a sort of evolved way to split shifts for camp defence during the tribal era. No idea if there's any solid data to back it up though.

Not there yet (or maybe I am, going by my country's average male lifespan), but after years of wondering what the fuck sometimes happens I finally realised what mostly causes sleep issues for me:

- not getting rid of screens at least 30 mins before I hit the bed (60 is ideal)

- not getting tired/exercise enough during the day

- sleeping in the afternoon and anytime during the day more than 40-50 mins

- having coffee after 4-5pm

- having dinner after 8-830pm (though this is minor and I am not really sure it affects much)

- and this is the biggest culprit of all (or maybe second worst - next to screen time): even though it's past my sleep time (1030pm) not actually just getting down on the bed and close my eyes and just try to relax even though it seems maybe I am not sleepy. This also applies if I wake up before my wake up time and I do not force myself to go back to sleep that is at least "kinda" pretend i.e just lie down closing my eyes.

What helps:

- reading myself to sleep (paper books are what I read, so not sure about e-readers)

- hot chocolate (half glass) after dinner but 10-15 mins before hitting the bed

- allergy medication (when it becomes unbearable for me) :D (no it's rare for me to take that and I don't take without asking my doctor)

- listening to rain/thunder sound on my phone from a distance

- if there are things pending or things bothering in my head → then heading to my ToDo list "TCOT" (abbr. for take care of this) in Reminders.app and log/dump it there before hitting the bed → I have noticed that those things usually do not bother me at night then (but I don't have much personal/anecdotal data on this either)

>hot chocolate (half glass) after dinner but 10-15 mins before hitting the bed Could this not be a sugar shock helping you fall asleep?

Two low impact things to try are:

* A very small amount of melatonin. .300 to .500 mg.

* Breathe right strips, these increase airflow

Other health issues can also cause wakefulness.

Don't forget: Try pausing caffeine intake.

At least 8 hours before sleep [1].

[1] https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/caffeine-and-sleep....

1 mg sublingual (dissolve under the tongue) melatonin works for me. I find it works best if I wait until I'm well settled in and should be asleep, but aren't. That's the time to quietly pop the tablet so it nudges me over the edge.

Biggest problem is that 1mg sublingual is hard to find. Walgreens/CVS is excited to sell you 5, 10 even 20 mg pills and gummies. But, those are so strong they are counter-productive.

Have you found somewhere else to get it?

I get the lowest dose and then break them up. Not precise, but if you get a 2-2.5 mg pill, it's pretty ok.

Melatonin gave me nightmares. So, YMMV.

In low doses? But yeah definitely a YMMV situation

I will add a comment in support of the very low dose of melatonin. I take 1mg, same as another user, but will experiment with dropping it. I find that it works best if I take it some time before I plan to sleep. Currently I have a reminder set for 9:15 and I fall asleep between 10:30 and 11:30 most nights.

I am a historically terrible sleeper but the past year has been the best sleep of my life. Here is my overall process:

Bedtime routine: 1mg Melatonin at 9:15ish. Don blue light blocking glasses. My understanding is that the science behind these is mostly bunk but they help me. (Probably because of a general reduction in light and the psychological routine). Read book outloud w/wife and then watch a boring youtube video. If the youtube video is interesting, it's not good. Books are also not good because I find them too entertaining.

Day routine: Wake up early, ish. Eat more food early than late. Exercise. Focus on using up energy at work or during the day. I am working on getting 30 min of sunlight every morning.

I thought work stress kept me awake at night, but it was sleep apnea. I had a device that propels the lower jaw forward, to clear the throat, it stopped apnea but moved my teeth, but I then was brave enough to lose ~5kg (sleeping more makes you brave), and now I don’t need the jaw device.

I noticed that too, but assumed it is a natural part of the body being in stasis and no longer growing/developing. I definitely remember being most tired during teenage years and other phases when the body was changing. You and others seem to imply that it has to be with increased stress, and maybe so, but I would like to see data on other cultures. Does someone who has been farming since age 17 have the same sleep patterns in middle age?

My issue is I seem somehow wired to wake up early. I sleep better when I go to bed earlier. Screen use seems to have nearly no impact on my sleep, and what has the most impact is the type of screen usage (i.e. reading news, books & watching film is fine, but instagram/tiktok before bed tends to lead to worse sleep for me).

I started exercising (a lot) in the year and found that has helped me fall asleep faster. It doesn't have to be a whole lot either. 30 minutes of jogging or fast walking is enough to do it for me. I definitely feel it on days where I sit and do nothing. I have a harder time falling asleep.

I find a light exercise for extended duration of time right before sleep helps my sleep the best. The key for me seems not doing anything stressful right before sleep after the exercise, and drinking plenty of water but not food/sugar. I wonder blood sugar level is associated with some of the sleep problems.

There is a natural reduction in sleep quality as we age. This is related to the decline of health in aging.

Moving my phone from beside my bed to across the room dramatically improved my sleep quality.

ahh the old 3am ruminating toss and turn never fails to put me back asleep a half hour before my alarm goes off and mostly never closer to solving the problem at hand

Sorry to hear that! I hope your sleep quality improves. :)

Taking a magnesium vitamin pill before sleep helps a lot. Try it out.

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