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Comment by Hilift | Hacker News Reader

This is actually interesting for multiple reasons. One is the technology. The other is the positive outcome rate for cardiac arrest after 30 days is so low.

The percentage of cardiac arrest survivors with positive outcomes 30 days after release depends on the type of cardiac arrest, and can range from 40% to 82%:

In-hospital cardiac arrest (IHCA) The 30-day survival rate for IHCA is around 25% in the United States and up to 35% in European countries. *In one study, the 30-day survival rate was 40%, with 34% of survivors having good neurological outcomes*.

Out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (OHCA) The probability of survival after OHCA can be increased by providing immediate cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) and using an automated external defibrillator (AED). In one study, *10% of people who experienced OHCA survived with a favorable neurological outcome*.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8359113/

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I survived an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest (previously undiagnosed ventricular fibrillation). Luckily I was in a building about 20 yards from where they kept the defibrillator, and they started CPR within a couple of minutes of me going down, with defibrillation as soon as they had got the device ready. I was already sitting up and talking when the air ambulance arrived but I still got the helicopter ride.

When I had an ICD implanted a few days later the surgical team stressed how massively lucky I'd been. They all stopped what they were doing and stared at me when the lead person read out my case history.

I don't think I had significant neurological issues as a result. Perhaps I should check my HN comment history to see if my rate of karma accrual changed around the date of the event.

My father survived this. No brain damage. Lived a few more years, until 74. The heart wasn't pumping at normal rates because of damage. Do to hip problems (arthritis) also had problems walking. Eventually Developed a blood clot in a leg. Initially survived the blood clot. But the medication given to thin out the blood clot caused bleeding on his liver. Somehow the Hospital missed the bleeding until it was too late. The operating room was also busy (Canada), so no intervention could be performed. Wasn't allowed to see him because of covid rules. Possibly been able to advocate for him if I was in his room, and saw his worsening condition.

They can save your life in a hospital, but just as easily kill you by mistake or side effect of whatever intervention they are doing. Also, walking (or being able to walk) is very important for longevity.

But the speed of the first response of the cardiac arrest is what matters. Since the brain is without oxygen. Assuming the person makes it to a hospital alive, they'll cool off the body to prevent brain damage. For every minute you survive, your odds get better.

Terribly sorry for you and your father. Heartbreaking.

Thank you

When I was attending a first aid & CPR class, one of the first things the instructor explained was that the chance of successful CPR is very, very low, but not attempting CPR obviously reduces the odds even more. Not to discourage anyone, but rather to prevent us from beating ourselves up over it if things didn't go well.

If you don't know CPR, you might want to consider learning.

I think by "successful" the instructor meant actually restarting the heart and reviving the patient, which is very unlikely. Keeping blood moving und preventing/delaying neurological damage is the thing the patient will benefit from.

I was shocked to learn how traumatic properly done CPR is, think broken ribs, etc… no wonder so many older doctors have DNRs.

I think a big part of it is that long-term survival rates aren't very high. If you need CPR because of an underlying illness, you're probably actively dying. If you're an older doctor, you probably know it.

CPR has a much better success rate when something like an electric shock stops an otherwise-healthy person's heart.

It's usually a good thing that the heart sits inside a boney cage. Not so much when you're trying to coax it into action.

Yes when I was CPR'd I got broken ribs. It was the defib that brought me round though.

The broken ribs were much more painful than the subsequent ICD implant. Although subsequently meeting the people who broke my ribs was actually a very happy and positive experience.

Our community had one of those horrible situations you hope never happens, kid drowning in the pool during end of year celebration. The woman that pulled him out and successfully revived him with CPR was a doctor, but credited the save to her childhood lifeguard CPR training.

Please learn CPR if you can.

I echo your suggestion. Anyone can learn CPR online for free (no in-person session though) through the Disque Foundation (I'm not affiliated): https://disquefoundation.org/cpr-first-aid-aed-certification...

OHCA survivor now with an ICD here. I just want to say I'm grateful for this technology and grateful that people still work on this and attempt rescue even if only 10% of people survive. I'm one of those 10%.

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