There is nowhere to run to. When the Right felt like they were losing the soul of their country, they stayed and they voted. When Democrats feel the same, you want to run? I hear this everywhere and its literally the sensibility destroying America; not because the right is going to destroy America, far from it, but because any unchecked side will.
They want to run because the right is using violent language and saying they are going on a revenge tour. Why is that weird to you?
“for the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely”
Trump banned trans people from serving in the military. More broadly, trans people routinely lose their jobs.
Trump has repeatedly called for socialists to be destroyed. For example:
"We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, that lie and steal and cheat on elections...”
Trump has called for socialists to be deported:
“Today I’m announcing a new plan to protect the integrity of our immigration system. Federal law prohibits the entry of communists and totalitarians into the United States. But my question is, what are we going to do with the ones that are already here, that grew up here? I think we have to pass a new law for them.”
Calling Trump Hitler gives Trump too much credit, but the political conditions of 1930's Germany and economic anger giving rise to a desire for national purity and scapegoating minorities is pretty dead on. And it's not like Germany is unique, we're really not much more advanced than ritual sacrifice of people taken by demons to bring about a good harvest, err economy. This has been a persistent bug in Human we keep hitting.
I am a progressive. I'm obviously dissatisfied with the results of this election. But I'm even more dissatisfied with the reaction I'm seeing from the left. I cannot and won't respect the "vibes" of "we're all gonna die, there's roving gangs in F150s in the streets, I'm leaving for Canada, the country hates me". I won't respect that. It is not indicative of any reality outside today, or in the immediate future (and I live in an extremely right-leaning place).
The reality that I want the left to adopt is: Its not that bad. The world isn't going to end. Both Trump and Kamala received fewer votes this year than in 2020. Progressive policies are majority-popular in the United States. Kamala was just a (very) bad candidate. Don't let that energy you're feeling go to waste by planning your escape to Thailand or laying in bed all day wrapped up in a cocoon. Educate the people around you. Be out in your community. And prepare for an even more important election in 2028.
The people who voted for Trump want people like you and me to die. (And fair enough, I want THEM to die!) You can choose how to respond to that, but you cannot deny it. For me, I don't think I have good prospects for leaving the country, but I am investing in a weapon. "Be out in your community" -- fuck that. I am acting for me and mine alone at this point, EVERYONE else can go to hell.
A number of people from marginalized groups literally fear for their lives right now. That's based in reality, coming from Trump's bigoted rhetoric and the people he allies himself with. Whether you think they should feel that way or not, it's the way that they do feel and it's valid.
It's a reasonable reaction when you believe your life is in danger to try and get yourself out of that situation. You saying "it's not that big of an issue" and "where's the evidence" is both tone-deaf and beside the point. This person is scared. They have bigger problems than your opinion that they should stick around and vote. Help or stay out of it.
For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option, but one that cannot be exercised until you have demonstrable proof you’d come to harm here in the States. That’ll be easier for folks in Red States whose policies are already openly hostile to our mere existence, but you’d likely get pushback since there are other states to move to and the Federal policies remain unchanged at this time.
Right now, your best bet is to sit, analyze, and prepare. Get your passport and make copies of any identity documentation. Be ready to leave at a moment’s notice, because we don’t have the luxury of believing that man, his party, or his electors are just joking around or otherwise not serious.
EDIT: one other thing you can do is get the hell out of a Red State ASAP and move into one of the “Blue Fortresses” of New England or the Pacific Coast. Equality Map has a good breakdown of states’ laws and protections broken down into LGBTQ-specific categories, and that’s going to be of critical import if Federal protections are tossed out. Those areas also have the added benefit of plentiful immediate transportation options out of the country, either by land, sea, or air if need be.
I'm not privileged enough to have first-handle experience and have the normal knowledge worker visa, but I worked with a dude, who had this setup.
My intention was to empower readers to take charge of their outcomes, something work visas aren’t reliable for in most cases (though in HN readers’ cases, it could be a valid one; I will be curious if any big tech employers offer relocation and visa assistance in the coming years).
Usually you need to have enough qualification and a job offer to apply for a work visa that is bound to the employing company for two years. Switching jobs requires reapplying. Afterwards, you can usually get a work visa that is not bound to a specific company, and less time limited.
Normally it's you applying for the visa, but in some cases the company hiring you can file the application, which can drastically reduce the time you have to wait, but cedes some control.
Of course, all this depends on your nationality and the country where you are applying.
You need to apply for a position and get it. Then you need to apply for the visa. That can take a couple of months to process, which sounds like a lot, but remember that in many European countries this is on par with, or less than, the notice period for changing a job. So for the employer it won't make a big difference.
You will probably have to pay for moving yourself though.
Everything else, including having passport and no previous history of war crimes, raping and pillaging for 5 years also applies to other visas anyway.
It's also not H1B type of slavery, there are not quotas, you can change employer whenever your want and not even lose fancy tax ruling. Work visa is the easiest way.
Remember that 'the EU' is around 30 individual countries each with their own work visa issuing procedures and rules - none of which are really at all comparable to the US system.
Seriously just choose a country and apply for a job with a company that doesn't explicitly state that they need you to already have the right to work in that country and see where it goes.
Girlfriend and I ended up moving over to Morocco on a temporary visa. That didn't end up working. However, I ended up then moving by myself from country to country for about a year, becoming a nomad and mostly living out of a backpack and sleeping bag. Basically walking and hitchhiking across portions of Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia.
Admittedly, this is rather challenging. However, many areas of the Earth are "ok" with 30-180 day stays, and the experience itself can be rather life changing. Got to go and teach children in Palestine because of that choice, which felt like at least contributing slightly to solving the issues in the Middle East. Here's the list as far as how long they'll allow legal stays per country (for Americans, since American perspective).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_United_S...
The other issue though, is if you're looking now, you're already kind of behind. Google says the numbers have doubled since 1999, and I've heard much larger numbers (like 17 million in the last three years). If you believe World Population Review, then there's about 8 million registered expats existing abroad.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-...
Here's another table from Wikipedia that "mostly" lines up with similar population percentages. Notably, those who have declared residency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_Sta...
It would definitely not be my choice if I was actually persecuted in my country.
Do you have any data points on this, I remember reading that some Americans have tried applying for asylum in Canada, but no one has ever been accepted.
As with all plans, this will not withstand enemy contact. You will need to adapt it to survive as required.
I just honestly hope it doesn’t get to that point.
yes you have. Unless you are in US illegally, you have 50 states to chose from.
Idk which Nordic country you are in but for example in Denmark there's a scheme called fast track quick job start that can get tech workers (among others) a residence permit the same day someone applies, often within an hour of the application being filed assuming you go straight to their office to get fingerprinted.
SIRI puts a lot of work into making moving here easy if you're a net tax benefit (and imo that's a good thing)
Outside of skilled work and tech though I've heard getting a visa is pretty much impossible for non EU citizens
That's not to say that Canadians are right or wrong in having issues with the levels of Indian migration to Canada, I just don't want to end up on the bad side of that.
+-------------------+-------------+-------+-------+------------+------------+
| Political Group | LGBT Voters | Cis | Trans | Non-Binary | All Voters |
+-------------------+-------------+-------+-------+------------+------------+
| Radical Left | 17 | 16 | 33 | 16 | 14.5 |
| Moderate Left | 16 | 20 | 13 | 10 | 10 |
| Center | 22 | 24 | 20 | 17 | 25 |
| Moderate Right | 15 | 15 | 7 | 17 | 15 |
| Radical Right | 30 | 25 | 26 | 40 | 34.5 |
| Other | - | - | 1 | - | 1 |
+-------------------+-------------+-------+-------+------------+------------+
Sending love and can relate, original commenter. I wouldn’t pick anywhere in Eastern Europe, that’s for sure. Get prepared for lots of “it’s just a little fascist rhetoric, he doesn’t really mean it when he says all trans people are pedophiles and he’s gonna deport legal immigrants who seem illegal” comments
If you are asking for worker's visa, you will get it (or very unlikely not get it) and be done with it in a few weeks. Then you just live your life normally, have access to job market, pay taxes and all that. Maybe even have a nice tax deal.
If you submit for protection, then government will consider your application in maybe 2 years, but no promise (subtext: we don't want you here anyways, you are not a priority). While it's not approved, your access to labor market is limited (because they take your jobs!).
If you are a tech worker with a visa, you may learn the language or not, do it fast, slow and decide yourself. If you are a status holder, you have an obligation and a case worker. Generally speaking you have a case worker and government wants to know you are still in the country and how you are doing.
Now since you can't have a job, you will also have a problem finding a normal free market rent in a place that suits your vibes, so you will be at the mercy of the government as well. Happening be happening in places where a lot of people with no access to labor market are concentrated and conditions will be, lets just say cheap. Once you are processed you may get social housing. There isn't a whole lot of it sitting free in the center of the capital 5 mins aways from the you dream tech job.
Now as to all of Europe? Probably not all of it, but affluent tech worker probably wants to go to a nice part of it, where everyone also wants to be, including all the actual refugees from the previous three wars and people who joined them on the way and put the foot into the door and don't want to be kicked out. System can handle it in case of emergency, but then the flow has to subside and thing have to be back to normal. Well having constant inflow is a new normal, so what does political body do with it? Downscale and slow down to throttle it.
On the off chance of picking the place that isn't nice for everybody's liking, the burueacracy may be specifically optimized to reject everyone and not speak languages. Bureacracy is also very local and doesn't always match political speeches of the supreme leader whenever you agree with them or not.
Do the normal tech visa, it's fine.
For starters, you'd be quite limited in your personal freedoms until the application is processed [years], unlikely to have the right to work, or the right to leave the country you just landed in without the application being automatically cancelled.
If, and really I can't see this happening, as a US citizen, you were to be granted asylum; then you ever travelling back to the US for any reason would make it likely that you would immediately lose the status (hence right to work, etc), likely with a future entry ban thrown in on top.
Work visas in the European countries I know of are not at all like the US H1B/Green Card style system. There are plenty of Americans here who just did it the 'normal way' and got a job offer and filed the paperwork for that [weeks]
Regardless, I don’t think “coming back to the US to visit family” is on our radar. That’s what makes this election heartbreaking. Asylum or no, moving overseas is effectively abandoning your extended/older family forever, unless you’re rich and/or a climate change denier.
Moving somewhere is very different than being a tourist, or an extended stay.
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans
"In the past five weeks, Trump’s operation has spent more than $29 million on TV ads criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting transgender surgeries for inmates and illegal immigrants in detention, according to data from the media tracking firm AdImpact. That makes the topic, by far, the biggest focal point when it comes to Trump’s ad spending"
https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-p...
"There were more ads on transgender sports than inflation, gas prices and bread and butter issues that could have swayed independent voters. We did not have a turn out problem — middle of the road voters simply didn’t like what Tudor was selling."
https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate...
in NH, ayotte wanted forced outing of transgender individuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0
in ohio, moreno ran ads saying brown “would allow sex change surgery for young kids.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw
in WI, hovde said his opponent (baldwin) supported 'castration' for minors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU
and in PA, mccormick said his opponent (casey) wants to “force hospitals to perform sex change surgeries on kids.”
Appreciate you citing your sources.
I’m European and most likely the overall effect you’d have, unless you went to a high income country where your impact is minimised, is likely to be net negative by raising housing prices in some poorer country like Portugal. Don’t be too surprised when their own Trump gets elected.
So far, there are no indications of the far-right gaining any amount of power with which they could govern. In a broader sense there have been a number of rightwing victories across Europe, but thus far Portugal (and Spain next door) don't look poised to join that trend.
Of course you are an American expat in Lisbon, so I assume you are living a life that's likely not very connected to local concerns. I assure you, Chega is growing like hell. I am not a supporter, I just see it.
Expats and the ballooning cost of housing is a part of it. The fact that you moved to Lisbon will have the victory of the far right here as a second order effect. Think about that.
The fact that there are so many expats blowing up the cost of living doesn't help.
Enjoy it.
And anyways we aren’t moving to Portugal. We have a few spots in mind, several of them are within the 2 EU countries where we are citizens. Bit odd to suggest we’d be net negatives in our own countries any more than you are a net negative in yours. But I suppose we are all a net negative when it comes to carbon emissions and environmental impact.
Airbnbs were part of the destruction of that city for residents. They’re priced out.
Tourists are not a patsy. Their impact on the city and real estate prices was devastating.
I didnt invite a single person. The owners of capital did.
This cold, zero empathy attitude is very typical of the "expat" culture.
Not sure what kind of empathy you are looking for. How could I possibly solve your problems? Only when you take responsibility, as the only people in the world with a vote, can you change the situation.
You might also want to take a look at the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.
A lot of them are looking for software engineers. Just go through the list one by one and keep applying.
However - the salaries in Europe are significantly lower than in the US. Be prepared for that.
Or you could come here to Canada.
The problem is you're going to find the same attitudes outside of the US, just a few years behind.
Be ready to take a paycut. Salaries in Europe aren't what they're like in the US. But we make it up in many other ways.
(Offer applies to anyone else who sees this)
Culturally I think an American would find it easier to adapt than eg France or Germany. The anglosphere individualism is present but watered down from the American extremes. Bureaucracy is low compared to the rest of Europe. People are superficially friendly, but it can be hard to penetrate social circles as an outsider. It is a more high context society than the US - you will be seen as a loud annoying yank, at least at first, but people can forgive, and you can adapt.
There's a functional social welfare system, free education and free Healthcare. All three have their problems, but are ultimately doing way better than our neighbours in the uk.
If you're black you will experience some racism, but not on the same level as in the us. When people hear you speak with an American accent a lot of that will probably evaporate. If you're hispanic, I don't think it will really register as an issue. Spanish speakers in europe are generally spanish, and are considered European, not some other lesser race the way they are in the us.
With a career in cs it should be easy to find a company willing to hire you, and sponsor your visa. Alternatively there is a special visa system (very badly advertised) for founders to move to Ireland and open a startup. Regardless, once you've been resident for 5 years you have the right to get citizenship.
This is all my opinion as an Irish developer who has been living in mainland Europe for the last 6 years or so.
It is not free for all.
This is of course anecdotal, but my partner spent a couple weeks in Dublin and a couple other Irish cities recently for a work thing, and was surprised to feel unsafe there. One of her co-workers was physically attacked by two drunk men, completely unprovoked, and several of her LGBTQ colleagues had disgusting things shouted at them in public, multiple times.
Depending on what group the toplevel poster is in that makes them feel wary about remaining in the US, I'm not convinced Ireland is a good choice.
Maybe look into Dutch American Friendship Treaty?
You will not get your SV salary ofc and maybe even less than 100k, but hej, you flee the opressive regime, right?
Now if things are bad and you are targeted personally and have a paper trail, there is also asylum thing. You don't want to do that thing, it sucks. Just get a job in whatever country you fancy and they will move you.
Come work in Berlin.
Very LGBTQ friendly.
The current gov. reduced the path to citizenship down to 5 years and allows for dual citizenships.
Get a permanent residency earlier, go live and work in the EU.
No one is out to get you. You are a victim of propaganda.
Not being a sore second-hand loser much, may I offer my sincere congratulations to Presidents Putin, and Xi on their successful re-elections.
TLDR of work: We write the global platform
Illegal aliens? Criminals in general? Trying to think what else
As for hatred of trans people: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-spe...
The last political ad I saw, and it was endorsed by Trump, featured a segment furthering the conspiracies around Imane Khelif, implying she was a man, etc.
We can ascertain from all this that Khelif went through male puberty and has the male physical advantage in sport that is caused by male sexual development.
Interestingly this is the same DSD that Caster Semenya has. Semenya is another male athlete who competed in a women's category at the Olympics, for the 800 metres track event, and who also won gold.
Individuals with this condition are sometimes mistaken for female at birth due to internal testes and an underdeveloped penis. And are then issued identity documents erroneously stating that they are female. This is what happened with Semenya and almost certainly is the case with Khelif too.