Americans are Googling how to 'move to Europe'. We should welcome them | Hacker News Reader

Americans are Googling how to 'move to Europe'. We should welcome them

theguardian.com

11 pointsTMWNN19 comments

The dellusion is so great, it reads like Onion.

First, of all there wont be any "brain drain" from US to Europe. So few will "walk the walk" as to be insignificant.

Second, the majority of people announcing or considering such move are not the brightest light bulbs, but either hysterical (reacting like echo-bubbling maniacs to a change of President that will mostly be business as usual, as 2016-2020 was), or (those broadcasting it) attention seekers virtue signalling this because it's fashionable.

Yes...but that headline is clickbait, plucked from a editorial that is mostly about other things. Also kinda laughable - the article is very heavy on "the EU should" stuff, with zero mention of Britain. Vs. The Guardian is British, and Britain left the EU years ago.

Reading things more charitably, I see the article as a "we need to actually get our sh*t together now" call to action. Not that I think it'll do any good, with how far Europe has sunken into dysfunctionality.

Last time I checked, it’s almost impossible to fire your employees once you’ve hired them in most EU/Nordic countries, even if you’re just a 3-person team. How does one build a fast moving startup this way? Genuinely asking.

It's perfectly possible to fire people for poor performance in the UK (which is in Europe, if not the EU). It's especially easy if the employee is within their probationary period, which could be around 6 months. You'd generally want to CYA by documenting some evidence of the poor performance, but that's something you should be doing anyway.

Don't most of the rules around protection from unfair dismissal only come into force after 2 years?

I think that's right. Probation periods themselves are required to be 'reasonable', and I think 6 months is usually given as a figure that's definitely reasonable. But indeed, you don't have full rights until two years have passed.

Isn't a probation period a contractual thing? I don't think there is any legislation defining it? I've certainly had employment contracts (a long time ago) that didn't include it.

Yes, but if a contract specified, say, a five year probation period, that almost certainly would be 'unreasonable' and not enforceable.

And yes, an employer does not have to specify a probationary period if they don't want to.

Indeed, I should know about the "not enforceable" bit as I had a dispute with a former employer on that very point - just because its in an employment contract doesn't make it enforceable.

The cherry on the cake was the need for my former employer to pay my lawyer bill!

In Germany it's perfect possible to fire an employee without telling a reason, if the company has all-in-all < 10 employees.

If the company is bigger than that, then everything is based on decisions and considerations. Which is a good thing. You can't be fired like, "go now, no money more" within small or big companies, if you didn't steal, break things on purpose or misbehave strongly.

But you can be regularly fired with a 3 months upfront, or, if you're employed longer than 5y, then the upfront time is prolonged automatically an additional month for each year of being employed.

So, we're taking care of the people living and working here. Which is a good thing for the people. The people are more worth than a company, aren't they?

Within the probationary period of 3-6 months (contract defined) you can be fired or just stop working by yourself without needing to tell a reason within minutes.

Untrue; there was a bump, but it's pretty much passed: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2024-11-01%202...

EDIT: with NZ for contrast, https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2024-11-01%202...

I imagine this trend wouldn't even be visible yet even as a bump.

Should be interesting when they find out the reality of abortion laws in much of Europe. There's a tendency for some in the US to view Europe as everything they like about the US minus the stuff they don't like. The reality on the ground often turns out to be much more mixed, especially on things they assume to be the US way in Europe that simply aren't. Ultimately moving to a state like California or Washington is going to get them far more of what they want in return for effort required.

> Should be interesting when they find out the reality of abortion laws in much of Europe.

Indeed. Let's take Germany as example:

* Abortion is always illegal in Germany, because courts have repeatedly found that the fetus has a right to life. (This occurred at almost the same moment as Roe v. Wade.)

* However, Section 218 of the criminal code has decriminalized abortion in some circumstances:

* Before 12 weeks, with counseling and waiting period.

* After 12 weeks, when rape or medical necessity is involved, with approval by two doctors, and possibly counseling and waiting period.

Title shortened for length from "Americans are desperately Googling how to 'move to Europe'. We should welcome them".

Well, there's plenty of room right there on the Google start page for a long-ovedue button; "I'm Feeling Desperate".

But I guess it's not like they don't already know whether you are desperate or not :\

One way to do it is to pay all the fees and give up US citizenship.

The other way is to keep on paying income taxes to the US government.

They are Googling but I very much doubt they're doing any more than that. In 2016 we heard a lot of the same "moving to Canada/UK/Europe/Australia" but statistically speaking there was no change. Here in Australia I've met plenty of Americans, but I never met a single one who said that they left due to Trump.

Funnily enough the HN post 3 above this was also by the Guardian stating they will no longer post on X, and they are on a position where it won’t be an issue because they don’t rely on sensationalist content. No meaningful number of people are leaving America because of a Trump presidency - To devote an article about how host nations should react is laughable

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