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Comment by thrance | Hacker News Reader

Most fraud comes from the top, not the bottom. What if there's no work to be done? What about those that can't do physical work? Should the sick ones still have to work just to eat today?

It wouldn't cost that much to give a small roof and food to every homeless person in my country, and becoming a productive member of society is vastly easier when you don't have to worry about your next meal.

But no, "some might cheat the system", or "it's not fair to give money to lazy bums", etc.

We could basically eradicate homelessness at small economic cost, which I believe would be a net positive on the long term, but we don't because of an irrational fear of the poorest members of society cheating the system.

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I am not trying to demonize any demographic. Everyone tries to cheat the system especially when you have a system that is easy to game. Yes, the most severe corruption is at the very top. Doesn't mean we should ignore other problems.

When you create perverse incentives you attract systematic cheaters. We literally conducted this experiment in Germany. Now the government is trying to roll out a restricted benefits card instead of giving out cash, because people come from overseas just to get on the benefits system and send the cash back home.

> When you create perverse incentives you attract systematic cheaters. We literally conducted this experiment in Germany. Now the government is trying to roll out a restricted benefits card instead of giving out cash, because people come from overseas just to get on the benefits system and send the cash back home.

Is this anything more than a right-wing talking point? There is no proof that this is actually happening in any meaningful scale.

> Everyone tries to cheat the system

No.

A lot of people say things like this, probably because they would (or do) cheat the system and they want to justify this as 'normal'.

However, studies show most people abide by rules, especially when systems are transparent and fair.

> When you create perverse incentives

Ending homelessness and poverty isn't perverse. It's necessary for a decent society.

And, it can be done. Finland ended homelessness rapidly, with a little political will and intelligence.

The wealthiest use issues like this to cheat the system. Solutions would involve WORK, plenty are still able, also temporarily assigning empty spaces in office buildings or other such reintegrative convergence points whereby reassuming ALL the lost habits and behaviors expected of productive members of society can find a place to be redonned much like release from prison. Reintegration is what needs to occur when the civilised suit is required to be worn again and the animal skin donned merely for survival can be retired. When conditions on the outside of a person are met it is within the grasp of that person to meet them internally as well. I will act civilised when im given the same respect afforded to people for whom the idea its ok to not have a home WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. In falling beneath all this contempt i wore the dirt i was considered sononymous with PROUDLY. If no one could thereafter imagine me clean, i too forgot the image. Thus i became my disgusting environment. Seeing as how in a moments flash of judgement i was seen less than human, how could i ever hope to regain a position so imaginary to begin with when i watched it die like a light in a strange mans eye. Because immediately he could ascertain i held less possessions, owned less property, wore dirtier clothing, slept god knew where. For those reasons i was immediately upon sight cast down into a place i was NOT EXPECTED TO RETURN FROM EVER.By everyone who looked at me. And i stayed exactly where i was expected to down there in the dirt. Because i no longer held any more faith in THAT MAN and his fragile petty conclusions than he held of me. His suit was too pretty for me to desire its false presumptive lies.. and my dirt was to ugly and real for him to understand how i could be a man when soap is so readily available. What had i done so terribly wrong that i couldnt at least MIMIC the simple act of civilised proper upbringing? My response? I no longer freakin want to. The eventual chain of personal deevolution was thereafter embraced where i saw a certain enlightenment in the adoption of more profound truths than being merely poor. At some point with the dropping of crumbs of concern for what people thought of me i unwittingly entered into a state of raw hostile savagery decorated with the accoutrements and badges of REAL SURVIVAL. Only others like me understood me and i passed a place from which without outside intervention i couldnt possibly hope to return. And this isnt my story alone. It is what you see written on thousands of faces when you look into the incomprehensible visage and life of the homeless person. Staring back at you is the return of incomprehensive shock at what theyve become from what looking at you they once were. And...the dread hopeless certainty theres no return. What do you think it does to the soul who sees the ship sailing away without him never to return, in a land that is not home and from which theres no escape? Inside, he dies. So there is youre burdon the desire you swear you wish to understand and heal. How to bring all these dead folks back to life?

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