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Comment by hyperpape | Hacker News Reader

> Land of free speech? Maybe in like a John Wayne movie was this ever true…

What country would you say has stronger free speech protections than the US? I won't say there's none, because there are roughly 200 countries, and I don't know enough about many of them, but I cannot name one.

Not the UK, France or Germany, and I'd be surprised to find any other European country.

For a sampling of other laws/measures:

  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insult_(legal)
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law
  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press#/media/File:World_Map_of_the_Freedom_of_the_Press_Status,_OWID.svg

Now...if this ban sticks, it will make your snark a lot more valid, starting with the year 2025.

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The USA is not especially high up on the World Press Freedom Index:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index

My main problem with free speech in America is how it’s become some sort of unquestionable belief that it’s absolute. There are many instances of freedom of speech being curtailed by the USA government, yet they are somehow redefined into some sort of “unspeech” and don’t count instead of being honest and saying “yes, we restrict speech on this occasion for X reason”. It’s a very dangerous Orwellian approach to not allow yourself to see when your freedoms are being restricted.

This list is reminiscent of "happiness index" which simply encodes a certain ideology via a benchmark, the components of which a reasonable American does not necessarily agree with being the utmost important factors, and only is taken seriously if abstracted and lipsticked by generic names like "press freedom" or "happiness".

The simple example that UK is ranked higher than US is prima facie evidence that it is complete bullshit, considering the lack of First Amendment and much stricter libel laws that UK media has to worry about.

The two examples of that are CSAM, which makes obvious sense to restrict, and copyright infringing material. It might make business sense not to let people post the latest Disney movie but it just goes to show the first amendment isn't absolute.

it is not snark, I am European living most of my adult life in the US and I have had more than one laugh over the years with “we are land of the free”

You’re thinking in binary terms about a gradient.

freedom being gradient sounds a lot like part of a speech of a dictator :)

It’s a spectrum. Some places are more free than others, and we’re as far toward the free end of the spectrum as anyone unless you count places where the government has totally collapsed. I suppose there are anarchies somewhere but they’re never stable.

You can say “land of the free my ass” every time a law prevents you from doing something you want, but that doesn’t mean other places have more freedom.

I agree 100%.

I never said that other places have more freedom though. I just find it fascinating that American really believe in their "rights" and frequently mock other countries, societies, etc...

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