Hacker News Reader

Comment by ynniv | Hacker News Reader

Strange that a technically capable engineering student would be at UGA when GeorgiaTech is of similar cost (and both free to Georgia residents who maintain a 3.0 though the HOPE scholarship). Not saying that you won't find good people at UGA (biting my GT tongue!), but following his rationale and years of work experience in Atlanta (showing Georgia residency), his story seems a little thin.

Even more so when his examples of work turn up 404's, 403's, placeholders, and ads for premium versions of the wordpress theme he used. Not every rockstar went to Julliard, but they were good at what they did.

View on HN

Lol, okay.

"Strange that a technically capable engineering student would be at UGA when GeorgiaTech is of similar cost (and both free to Georgia residents who maintain a 3.0 though the HOPE scholarship)."

UGA has a combined bachelors & masters program that I wanted to do, and I knew the security professor and adviser going in who have both been very supportive to me, while Tech's staff were absolutely horrendous.

"Even more so when his examples of work turn up 404's, 403's, placeholders"

I put the cart before the horse, so to speak. I made the links and banners & such as I was working on the projects, and then my circumstances changed and I had to find a job. I mentioned this in the post. Would you like me to send you some of my completed work?

"ads for premium versions of the wordpress theme he used"

Where were those? I'd love to go kill those links.

"Tech's staff were absolutely horrendous"

Good ol' Tech... IMO it's a terribly outdated approach, but there's a ton of "I got through it, so everyone else should have to deal with it too" momentum there.

I went there as an out-of-state student and wouldn't recommend it for other out-of-staters. There are quite a few other good public engineering schools.

Another GT alumni here; I totally get the "I got through it..." mentality of the above. However, Georgia Tech is generally seen as one of the absolute best values (especially for in-state students) available in Engineering schools. Even without the HOPE scholarship (which I lost after 3 semesters due to too much partying and never having learned to actually study after breezing through high school) it was insanely cheap when considering the quality of the programs and stature of the school.

I'm not sure what the costs are for out-of-state; so, the value proposition may not be there in that case.

A decade ago they were ~ $20k/year, which was below average at the time. http://colleges.findthebest.com/ says that it is $27k now, on par with other public schools and $13k less than "elite" schools. As I've been unimpressed with Comp Sci grads from more expensive schools, I recommend Tech to anyone who is primarily interested in a career developing software.

You chose UGA (a quiet state school) over GT (a world class research university) because GT was too abrasive and you know a friendly prof at UGA? To me, this undermines your position more than anything else. You have set yourself up to get by without learning or trying too hard. If true, you are only arguing against the Ivy League bias because you are on the losing side of it, not because it is misguided.

Where were those? I'd love to go kill those links.

Seriously? man grep and "to hell with (the University of) Georgia!"

This; I hope the OP reads this comment and understands it because there's a load of truth in those first two sentences.

If you legitimately could have gone to a better school than UGA and chose not to; you've given up your right to bitch about it. The opportunity to get that so-called leg up that you're so upset about others having and you passed on that opportunity.

FWIW, one of the great hallmarks of the real "rockstar" people is that they know how to capitalize on opportunities presented to them.

And to ynniv: you forgot "University[sic] of Georgia."

>You chose UGA (a quiet state school) over GT (a world class research university) because GT was too abrasive and you know a friendly prof at UGA?

That, they have a fast track Bachelor's\Master's combined degree, and I was originally a Poli Sci double major when I got here.

But I appreciate your condescension, thanks.

That, they have a fast track Bachelor's\Master's combined degree, and I was originally a Poli Sci double major when I got here.

Computer science and Poly Sci double major? Are you serious?! Perhaps my original comment that UGA < GT came off condescending, but honestly it could have been a lot more. I generally give people the benefit of the doubt.

But, you came to HN to talk about there are capable people who didn't go to Ivy League schools. And I agree with that. Given my experience thus far, I would go even farther and say that an Ivy League education makes you a worse engineer, but that's getting off topic.

So let's get down to how people really become rockstars: they are obsessively dedicated to being musicians because they don't know what else to do in life. Folks who went to GT to learn Computer Science were already at a disadvantage, because of those of us who had been doing this for a decade already. I graduated years ago, but I don't feel that I've ever stopped learning how to be better at what I do. I'm not saying that I'm a "rockstar", but when I look at people to work with (ie, hire), that's the kind of drive that I'm looking for.

I appreciate your condescension, thanks.

Any time, and there's plenty more where that came from.

But don't take it personally. I don't dislike you - I dislike what you're doing. If you want to do this for a living, then show us by working harder at it. Get rid of anything that isn't complete on your website. Don't be so lofty in your opinions, just do good work and keep doing it. You'll find more opportunities than you need.

Computer science and Poly Sci double major? Are you serious?!

Yeah? Does that say something I'm not aware of?

Get rid of anything that isn't complete on your website.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to just finish the projects?

Perhaps I'm not obsessive on the level of Kurt Cobain, but I'll have been doing this for a decade before I graduate. How would I go about better communicating that drive?

> "Wouldn't it be a better idea to just finish the projects?"

You can do both. Fix broken links, make your existing website complete. Then finish your projects and add them as you finish them.

Presentation is everything. You are living in a world with literally millions of engineers, and without knowing you personally, how you present yourself is the only indications we have of your competence.

And broken links does not speak well to that presentation.

If you want to be taken as a professional, you need to project professional.

Yeah? Does that say something I'm not aware of?

Poly Sci doesn't strike me as the kind of person interested in getting their hands dirty. Chalk my reaction up to people I have met who are more interested in taking credit than doing work.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to just finish the projects?

Sure, but until they're worth talking about you're better off not talking about them.

I'll have been doing this for a decade before I graduate. How would I go about better communicating that drive?

My point was to convey how dedicated good people are, not to say that time connotes skill. The way to be a poet is to poeticize. I had a random stroke of awesome just after school from creating a python script that exported 3d objects from Blender into Google Earth. Someone in Boulder saw it and offered me the kind of startup role that I had wanted since high school.

The startup didn't pan out, but the idea that doing good work creates opportunities did. In fact, a bunch of my co-workers went on to create some very successful iPhone games that you've probably heard of. Find something that you are interested in and do it, even if you don't think that you can. Especially if you don't think that you can. Even if you fail, you'll have learned something and possibly created part of the solution in the process. Put that on your blog, and see where it takes you.

> Yeah? Does that say something I'm not aware of?

It says you're not a monomaniac who cares only about appropriate intellectual pursuits, like computer science, mathematics, or physics.

Snarky. Maybe if he took on a third major you would give him a job.

I'm not in the business of giving people jobs. If I was, being enough of an asshole to denigrate people for having different academic interests at age 18 would be more of a red flag to me than simply having different academic interests at age 18. Maybe that's why I'm not in the business of giving people jobs.

It may be hard to see it now, but the school you went to will be much less important in a few years. An Ivy League education surely gives you a leg up right out of college, but after that, it is all about the quality of work you do.

I went to UGA and had a friend who was a Comp Sci graduate, and he was a rockstar before he ever graduated because he had a large body of open source work, beating out Ivy Leaguers for desirable jobs at big companies. If anything, going to UGA was an advantage for him because the course load wasn't as demanding as a tougher school, leaving him time to focus on actually building things.

Seriously, it doesn't matter as much as you think.

Off topic but I think the HOPE scholarship and Bright Futures in Florida are outstanding forms of financial aid.

Yes! They were not available to me, but I am glad they exist. HOPE could be improved by easing up the 3.0 requirement for GT, tho.

HOPE is only getting more exclusive, not less, because they can't afford the old system. I think it's on a sliding scale vs GPA now.

Tech was ridiculously cheap as an in-state student in the late 80s. Pretty much everyone graduated with no debt even then.

MIT was $16,000 a year when I looked at it at the time, I believe. I'm having a hard time remembering the details of their financial aid, but they had some need-based assistance on a sliding scale. You'd end up owing several $10s of thousands, which everyone said you'd "easily" pay off once you got a job out of there, which is likely mostly true. Still, it was an intimidating amount to a lower-middle class kid. It's telling I didn't go there and still have the cost fixed in my head.

My high school counselors/teachers were sort of limited in their knowledge of the upper end of the scale. MIT was all I ever heard about in terms of out-of-state tech schools. All the rich kids went Ivy League, and all the other smart kids went to GT. The Naval Academy had a special aura for a few. A couple people in my class went to Harvard, but no one ever talked about it in terms of a technical education.

No one from my high school went to a school in California. I was aware of Caltech, not that I could have found Pasadena on a map. I knew the name Stanford, but only because of its physics department, and literally did not know what state it was in.

I've made sure my teenage niece is at least aware of what the top schools are.

Cheap, no holds barred, technical education is an invaluable resource! Without splitting hairs, an engineering degree has the lowest unemployment[1], and GT has the highest ROI[2].

[1 http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3?sor...]

[2 http://www.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/bs_collegeRO...]

Reply on news.ycombinator.com