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Comment by ggm | Hacker News Reader

Commence, maybe. Given their lead in pebble bed, I wonder why? Probably competing teams and competing funding and goals. Thorium was in test decades ago in the USA and its applicability to large scale power with lower proliferation risk is given. I think the article's pointing out how much usable thorium China has as a side effect of rare earth mining may get to the heart of things: people with giant trash piles look for ways to monetise.

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China has a portfolio strategy when it comes to nuclear technology (and energy systems in general).

They are pretty diverse with all technologies. Browsing Alibaba it's amazing the range of stuff you can get.

It's almost a free for all without too much worries about regulation whether cars, nuclear, viral gain of function, high speed trains etc.

Kai-Fu Lee gives great insight into the engineering culture in AI Superpowers.

What I get from that book is they have a culture of a free for all that anything can be copied and ripped off so there is no standing still to admire your work.

Innovate or get copied and innovated out of existence.

A stark contrast to what we have evolved in the US. Innovate and then use the profits of innovation to buy legislation that eliminates competition.

There is no mystery how this plays out over a 50 year time window.

Nah.. it doesn't work that way.

True Innovation comes from the heart, and most mainland Chinese have lost touch of their hearts - you can even see that foreshadowed in ài the character for Love (爱/愛)。The simplified version just pretended the heart 心 is not in the center of it..

You may have step-by-step progress in China, like going from 110 to 111.

But there have never been and will never be any 0 to 1 kind of innovation in China.. maybe at most gimmicks and copying orchestrated by the Beijing State itself.

> A stark contrast to what we have evolved in the US. Innovate and then use the profits of innovation to buy legislation that eliminates competition.

This sort of stands in contrast to reality, where the US has sustained insane and constant innovation for a vast stretch of time.

> I wonder why?

To learn.

Do we need a better reason to try something new?

Nope. But I suspect it's beyond learning. The Chinese may understand nuclear power better than almost anyone else, France not withstanding. I could believe this is a strategic move, to diversify power input sources as well.

Look I am not knocking learning, but I don't think thats the key drive here.

yeah I think that hypothesis has legs. China has been trying to diversify their energy portfolio for a long time now. They're also going full steam ahead on wind and solar and is the world leader in battery storage (lithium ion and other types too). Fossil fuel, other than coal, has always been a major weakness for China that can be choked off via the Straits of Malacca.

I wonder if powering their reactor using thorium from their rare earth minerals mining is significantly cheaper than using uranium. Thorium also have the advantage of a very low weapons proliferation risk so it might be easier for China to export thorium reactors. This may play into China's long term plan to develop the global south as an alternative market (and counterweight) to the West.

I mean learning for learnings sake is more surprising then learning for a purpose.

"full steam ahead on wind and solar" the only two generation strategies that don't involve steam ;)

Closed-cycle gas turbine is possible with molten salt reactors!

concentrated solar uses steam

One day they might be able to sell ready made thorium reactors. That would be big business.

Straits of Malacca is a red herring. The strait is the shortest route from Persian Gulf to China. But there are other routes through Indonesia, or could take detour around Indonesia or even Australia. The US Navy can block anywhere.

Also, there are supertankers bigger than Malaccamax, the largest ships than can use the strait. The Chinamax and Capesize ships are bigger.

I believe this is mainly due to China's strong sense of crisis regarding energy supply. If it had as abundant fossil fuel resources as the United States and Russia, it likely wouldn't have invested so heavily in diversifying its energy sources. The development and support of new energy vehicles can also be largely attributed to this.

China has something like 35 years of coal reserves, based on current estimates and assuming mining holds flat.

Given the ~50% of their energy mix that's coal [0], that becomes a fix-it-ASAP problem for their economy.

[0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-energy-source-sub?c...

Heavy dependence on coal has led to severe environmental pollution. As winter approaches and cold fronts sweep down from the north, increased heating needs drive up thermal power generation, releasing more pollutants into the air. During periods of stagnant weather with no wind or rain, smog settles over the sprawling plains, triggering both public health concerns and mounting pressure on the government to address the issue and explore alternative energy sources.

>its applicability to large scale power with lower proliferation risk is given

that would allow easier export of thorium power plant building thus dominating the nuclear power sector similarly to solar panels.

> Commence, maybe. Given their lead in pebble bed, I wonder why?

Pebble bed reactors are also not a great idea. We've just had this discussion on HN...

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