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Comment by SoftTalker | Hacker News Reader

I think some of that demand is there in the US. My daily needs for a car would be satisfied with 100 mile range, allowing for a pretty generous buffer. I also sometimes need to drive beyond the range of an EV without wanting to think about recharging delays or possibly getting stranded.

I'd consider owning a very cheap small EV for my daily needs, but not at the prices they command today. Even something like a Nissan Leaf is far too expensive for that.

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>I'd consider owning a very cheap small EV for my daily needs, but not at the prices they command today.

Is that due to EV prices or car prices in general? I guess it depends on where you are and what price you pay for electricity. But I also think a lot of people haven't internalized the price inflation of new and used cars in the last 4 years. A second generation Leaf with less that 25k miles can be had for less than $15,000, and it is should be eligible for a $4,000 used EV tax credit (if your income is under $150k):

https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/3348306?refSource=srp

I should probably sit down and do the math on elecricity vs. gas and the payback time, but for reference I am something of a bottom-feeder when it comes to cars. I have pretty good success with used ICE cars in the $4-6k range. I look for southern cars with no rust/salt damage. They are out there, but you won't find them on Carvana.

My current daily driver is a 20 year old Mercedes E class that I bought for $4k. It's a V8 and takes premium gas, but I average close to 20mpg and don't really drive enough miles for that to be a huge dealbreaker. With $4/gal gas I might burn $8/day with typical driving. That might be roughly 10 kWh in a Leaf? I don't know what the losses are in charging but if that's 20 kWh to recharge, that would be maybe $4/day? So I'd save maybe $80/month if I drive 20 days a month? That's all very wild guesstimating but seems like it would take 10 years to pay back the price difference, also considering that I could not really drive the Leaf on any longer trips at all.

Charging efficiency is ~85% efficient. As far as I can tell, when it comes to used cars in my area, $10k is the new $4k. No way would I buy a $4k car any more, and I'm in the market for a beater for a kid's car. $4,000 buys a 2003 Toyota Corolla with 250,000 miles and 9 previous owners and some moderate damage according to CarFax.

You have to look around but better cars are out there. I bought a '04 Mercedes E500 for $4k about 2 years ago. Had about 160k miles, no rust. Was it perfect, certainly not. Had some wear and tear but fundamentally was a solid car. I still see them in this price range today.

I totally get that someone might not want to deal with the unknowns and risks of a 20 year old car.

Good to know that the charging efficiency is better than I guessed. I'll have to run the numbers again next time I'm needing a car. EVs have an appeal, no doubt. But for me they have to make economic and practical sense.

German cars tend to be cheap because maintenance costs are crazy. The have more parts, and each part is more expensive.

You could easily get hit with a mechanic bill for greater than the value

40 miles is about 10kWh, yes, which would be 11.5kWh at the meter. I pay 7cents/kWh, so you're paying about 10X per mile as I am for fuel. I've driven old BMW's, and I had to budget about $3k/year for maintenance & repairs, I imagine your Merc is similar. So you're spending $400/month for your "cheap" car.

A 3 year old Tesla for 20K would likely save you a considerable amount of money.

I do my own maintenance and repair and don't spend anything close to that (not counting my time, but it's a hobby for me). Insurance and registration is also cheaper.

>should be eligible for a $4,000 used EV tax credit (if your income is under $150k):

This is only true if you do a joint file. If you're a single filer, it phases out once your income is above $75k, or $112k for heads of household.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

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