Hacker News Reader

Comment by martin-t | Hacker News Reader

I cannot agree with the quote for 2 reasons:

1) That person has respect for justice, not law. These are separate concepts and people need to see them as separate.

2) It reinforces the view that by making yourself a victim (of the state), you are somehow more virtuous than if you avoid punishment. That only works in societies with sufficient inclination towards justice. It will not work under authoritarian rule like Russia or China, you will just end up in a gulag freezing to death or on your town square bleeding out.

Whether an action was just is determines solely by what preceded it, not by what followed. Making yourself a victim is just a practical way to attract more people's attention.

Practicality and morality are as separate as legality and morality.

View on HN

> 1) That person has respect for justice, not law.

Willingly accepting the penalty means having respect for the actual law that establishes the penalty.

Fair point, i understood the quote differently (as promoting respect for the law even if unjust)

> It will not work under authoritarian rule like Russia or China, you will just end up in a gulag freezing to death or on your town square bleeding out . . . Making yourself a victim is just a practical way to attract more people's attention

Allow me to quote from the Wikipedia page of the Arab Spring:

> The catalyst for the escalation of protests was the self-immolation of Tunisian Mohamed Bouazizi. Unable to find work and selling fruit at a roadside stand, Bouazizi had his wares confiscated by a municipal inspector on 17 December 2010. An hour later he doused himself with gasoline and set himself afire. His death on 4 January 2011 brought together various groups dissatisfied with the existing system, including many unemployed persons, political and human rights activists, labor and trade unionists, students, professors, lawyers, and others to begin the Tunisian Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

Did Bouazizi make himself a victim, or a martyr? The only reason the Arab Spring fizzled out was due to directed intelligence and military operations supported by the US and Western regime, not more authoritarian regimes like Russia or China.

I have the highest possible respect for self-made martyrs around a good cause. Claudette Colvin, Rosa Parks, etc. all pushed the needle and eventually paved the way for both white and non-white citizens to share in our nation's bounty.

Is the civil rights movement finished? No. We need more martyrs.

> The only reason the Arab Spring fizzled out was due to directed intelligence and military operations supported by the US and Western regime

Fizzled out due to the same US/Western countries that bombed the pre-existing governments in Libya and Syria?

There are a lot of bad actors in the world, not just the US and Western empires. You can find honest politicians today, but you'd be hard-pressed to find an honest government anywhere.

Solidarity is one of our most important weapons against the degeneration of political systems, and the solidarity of the Arab Spring is what scared multiple governments into suppressing it.

Similarly, Corpgov is not all that scared by the actions of Mangione. What scares them is the public solidarity behind him.

Thanks for mentioning Claudette Colvin.

That is not how I read the quote at all: the respect for the law stems from the understanding that the only meaningful way to change common law is to challenge it, and defend your actions in court.

New just laws are created by injustice. Unjust laws are repealed by injustice. The only vote that matters at the end of the day is the vote cast in lead.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com