Hacker News Reader

Comment by addicted | Hacker News Reader

Except the article doesn’t claim what the drivers are doing is illegal.

The article says that the street design causes drivers to speed up and makes the intersections unsafe.

Instead of drivers always stopping, or at the very least slowing down, when approaching the intersection, the new street design leads to drivers speeding up when approaching the intersection.

This is bad design for pedestrians irrespective of whether the driver jumps a light, the pedestrians cross when they shouldn’t be, or neither of them are doing anything wrong.

It will increase the odds of collisions, injuries and possibly fatalities.

View on HN

> Except the article doesn’t claim what the drivers are doing is illegal.

The article states “… and I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span.” I suppose “ripping through” can be left up to interpretation.

However, in the video the author says “that person just ran a stop… a red light right in the middle of me filming.” Then the other he says: “I bet this guy runs the light. Yup, see, this person ran the light, too.”

“Running” a red light is an illegal act.

I think in both cases the cars should have slowed down and had plenty of time to stop before entering the intersection. But, evidently that’s legal in California, while the author indicates otherwise.

I don't know if California has a different law, but at least in my state it is very much illegal to accelerate into a yellow light.

Enforcement is basically non-existent, but it's absolutely "running the light" and "breaking the law" to accelerate into yellow lights.

I don't know USA, but in other parts of the world yellow and red are different colors.

Just because 2 things are illegal they aren't the same, and it takes away all seriousness from the article for me.

Genuinely - why do you care?

His point is absolutely correct - the cars used to stop, and now instead they're accelerating to beat a light change.

I genuinely don't know if that's actually illegal in cali - but it definitely is in several states, and you'll get ticketed for failing to stop for a red light.

---

> but in other parts of the world yellow and red are different colors.

Yellow is the light that means "start stopping" and red is the one that means "absolutely stop". Neither damn color is the "go faster" color.

> but it definitely is in several states, and you'll get ticketed for failing to stop for a red light.

My state, which is one of the ones you are talking about, only will give you a ticket for going over the speed limit through a yellow light, not for accelerating up to the speed limit. If you proceed through a yellow without going above the speed limit (even if accelerating) and do so because you were in the intersection already (at or beyond the stop line) you will not receive a ticket (assuming you can prove it).

Accelerating through a yellow over the speed limit is just asking for a speeding ticket in just about any state.

> Genuinely - why do you care?

Because the article is clearly biased. If I wanted biased articles I could go anywhere else on internet.

California law does not address accelerating on a yellow. The driver's handbook (which is not the law) says

> A yellow traffic signal light means CAUTION. The light is about to turn red. When you see a yellow traffic signal light, stop, if you can do so safely. If you cannot stop safely, cautiously cross the intersection.

The bright line rule is not to enter the intersection on a red light, defined as crossing the stop line if present, crossing the first line of a pedestrian crossing if present, or actually entering the intersection if there are no lines.

> The article states “… and I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span.” I suppose “ripping through” can be left up to interpretation.

There really isn't enough information given to make a determination.

It looks like two of the vehicles traveling on Lemon "jump" due to a ridge in the middle of the intersection but that itself isn't an indication of speeding.

The video and article specifically said these cars “ran the red light”, which they absolutely did not do.

you're supposed to slow down at a yellow to prepare to stop, not speed up to get through it, increasing speed through an intersection is inherently dangerous

the author's point is valid and we're falling into pedantry

It depends on how far from the intersection you are. If you can’t stop before the intersection, you shouldn’t slow down because you need to get through the intersection in time.

Those cars didn’t have time to stop safely. They would have had to slam on the breaks, which is very dangerous because the car behind you might not stop in time. Speeding up to get through in time is the right decision if you are very close to the intersection when the light turns yellow.

Speeding up is only the right decision because it's a poorly designed intersection.

There is no intersection design that could avoid this. Some people are going to be too close to the intersection to stop in time when they see yellow no matter what you do.

That doesn't excuse speeding up, though – if the yellow light is long enough, you will always be able to either a) safely stop with a certain given maximum deceleration, or else b) continue at your current speed and enter the intersection before the light turns red.

That's rubbish, it's provable mathematically that given any speed limit it's possible to avoid an overlapping "dilemma zone" that requires speeding up

(v²) / (2a) ≤ (v × t_y) + L

v = vehicle speed (meters per second)

a = comfortable deceleration rate (meters per second squared)

t_y = yellow light duration (seconds)

L = length of the intersection (meters)

You can calculate the minimum yellow time for this using t_y ≥ (v / 2a) - (L / v)

This is rudimentary and doesn't account for reaction time, but a simple buffer would suffice.

The failure is largely in poor planning and poor human behavior.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com